Copyright - Addon Makers Be Aware

[Sefe]

This isnt exactly the first time a question of copyrite has come up.

http://www.google.com/search?num=50&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=%22understanding+copyright%22&spell=1

My suggestion is that you read up.  Like I did.

Icarus, thank you for your private lessons in copyright law (which, as I said, doesn't apply for brands). Of course I can't compete with your expertise in this matter. Damn, why did I study law (including the junior lawyership) for 7 1/2 years when everything is so easy?

[Tomb]

L .... O ....  L .....

[Sefe]

Puh! I have two saftey lines now:

1st, IÂ've got 6 years before I can get caught (yes, yes, shut up, I know, I am a baby in yer eyes!).

2nd, I live in Sweden.

You're wrong.

a) Intellectual proterty law is not part of the criminal law but part of the civil law. Anyone (including a minor who can be represented by his parents) is subject to civil law. Even if you can't be convicted, you can be held liable under certain circumstances. And prohibitory action can be taken against you.

b) Sweden has copyright/trademark etc. laws, too. They are even subject to European harmonization and international IP law treaties.

[dmakatra]

yeah, yeah, take it easy! I was just kiddin!

[Messiah]

Icarus, thank you for your private lessons in copyright law (which, as I said, doesn't apply for brands). Of course I can't compete with your expertise in this matter. d**n, why did I study law (including the junior lawyership) for 7 1/2 years when everything is so easy?

R...O...F...L...M...A...O...

[Sui]

Careful guys... around here Sefe is The LAWyer

If you're going to combine the realms of copyright law, interlectual property law and international law (due to the nature of the internet) I wouldn't recommend sticking to any golden rules... they change depending on where you see the sun come up I'd imagine...

[KTottE]

Well, like Sui says, you shouldn't mix these laws together.
There are copyright laws, there are trademark laws, there are intellectual property laws (under which copyright, trademark and patent laws fall), then each country have their own instance of these laws, and then there's an international law/standard, and then there's the question of internet, which in it's ways is lawless.

And, like Sefe says, do not, ever, ever, ever, ever *108 make generalizations based on individual cases.
Even if 99 out of a 100 cases end the same way, you can't make that generalization, because there will always be that last 1 that doesn't fit in with the rest.

Oh, and Coca Cola had no -real- legal grounds to stop that map. What they can argue though, is that their trademark is put in a compromising position and that it reflects poorly over them. If a supreme court or equivalent believes them, they will rule in their favour. But unless you are earning money from it (which is a clear violation of trademark laws) Coca Cola cannot sue you/force you to stop with anything just like that.

Unless, Coca Cola has registered their trademark as a trademark in computer game levels as well, they could not order anyone to stop distributing/create a map that takes place in their warehouse.
I bet most of you, apart from Sefe, didn't know that.
You have to register a trademark for each and every market you wish to sell your product.
If Coca Cola hasn't registered Coca Cola as a trademark for, let's say, washing machines, I can register a washing machine under the name Coca Cola and so on and so forth.

[uiox]

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[dmakatra]

Wait a minuite! If I ask a company to addon their product, their just gonna laugh and say "why do you spam our mail with this sh!t?". But if I addon their product after IÂ've asked them, and it became a hit so allmost all OFPECers downloads it, then the company comes and sue me for using their product without their permission!

You c what I mean? I donÂ't think, letÂ's say the coca-cola company even awnser to this Q via the mail:

Hi! IÂ'm a 12 year old boy and IÂ'm playing a game called OFP. Now, beside the game, there is some tools that you can make either missions or a thing called AddOns. ThatÂ's why I wanted to contact you, cause you have copyright, and I ask for yer permission to do a coca-cola machine. Is that OK?

I really doubt that theyÂ'll even awnser to this...

[Colonel_Klink]

I guess we could argue and surmise over this issue with no resolution in sight.. The bottom line is: If in doubt seek permission.

We should remember that if we designed something new and were marketing it as a product, we would want to protect our interest. And a point to remember, it doesn't matter whether or not there is a breach of copyright.. if they have the money and the lawyers.. then they have a better chance of finding loopholes.

I guess it comes down to an issue of how far a company would go. i dare say that most wouldn't.. but then you never know.

As it has turned out the CEO of the company has sent me an email of support and is going to supply additional information and specifications.

[Sefe]

You have to register a trademark for each and every market you wish to sell your product.
If Coca Cola hasn't registered Coca Cola as a trademark for, let's say, washing machines, I can register a washing machine under the name Coca Cola and so on and so forth.

That's not exactly true. The rule is that trademarks only apply for the registered product category. But the exception is that if a trademark is known widely enough (and Coca Cola is considered to be the best known and most valuable trademark in the world - it's estimated to be worth 100 billion $), you are not allowed to use it for any product. If you'd name your washing machine Coca Cola, Coca Cola could sue the shit out of you (at least in the EU).

While I don't really comment the named case about Coca Cola (I don't know the full facts), I also doubt that there actually was a court trial in that case. If you'd run a site in your spare time and you would recieve a letter from Coca Cola's lawyer, threatening to sue you, would you risk a trial? And as long as you don't have a final court decision you can't say that Coca Cola is right or wrong.

But we're drifting away, this thread turns into a general legal discussion.

[dmakatra]

but if everyone seeks permission to, lets say coca cola, theyÂ'll sue us for spamming their mail!

But if you do that, youÂ've to be pretty sick! But hey, if someone sues a microwave company for the reason "There was no warning sign that you shouldnÂ't dry your cat in the microwave" and you do it, itÂ's a proof people really are that sick!

[Red7]

It's possible yes, it happend to Colonel but it's a singular case in millinos so I wouldn't worry much about it guys

I've seen alot more of these cases for other mods/skins etc. Like Fox Interactive threatened to sue a skinner that made a USCM skin convertion for Natural Selection, and EA was playing around with the idea of taking legal action because someone made a skin with textures ripped from MOH:AA.

Alot of smaller companies are very protective of their work as well. I've seen other cases, but they where a long time ago and I can't remember the details.

[dmakatra]

Like I said, it doesnÂ't hurt anyone, who cares if thereÂ's a MOHAA skin in OFP? Besides, itÂ's WW2, itÂ's history, itÂ's public, EA doesnÂ't have the right to sue some1 for that skin. TheyÂ're just after the money.

[Noon416]

Whether there is a legal base to their requests or not, I think the best solution when approached is simply...

Be polite
Be respectful
And ask nicely

As Colonel_Klink points out...

I explained my position and how the use of material was not intended to breach copywrite and the gunboats were created because I liked the concept.
His reply was positive

...and...

And a point to remember, it doesn't matter whether or not there is a breach of copyright.. if they have the money and the lawyers.. then they have a better chance of finding loopholes.

The situation is not whether they have any right to stop you, but simply that they have a mountain of money to throw at the courts if they don't like your response. Individuals don't.

So the best approach is simply be respectful of their concerns and address those concerns in a constructive manner, and you'll increase the chances of getting a favourable response.

Telling them to "F**k off, you can't do anything as I'm too young, you have no right, etc" is only going to draw a legal response, something that anyone can tell you is going to bankrupt you quicker than you can blink.

Just my 2.12 cents (inflation adjusted).