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Author Topic: Sniper mission, need realism advice  (Read 612 times)
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« on: 26 Sep 2002, 20:19:24 »

I'm wondering about extraction here. This mission takes place deep in enemy territory, so its getting kinda tricky to figure out what a good way to get back out would be.

At the moment, iv got a black hawk with some infantry in it as reinforcements. The player calls for them after completing the objective, they come and join you, and take you back to base.

So, i'm wondering: Is a gunship full of infantry very realistic for taking a sniper out of enemy territory? Is there any way i could use a vehicle to extract for this mission?

Realism is of utmost importance here. Thanks Smiley
« Reply #1 on: 26 Sep 2002, 20:22:33 »

I would think that a BH would be realistic if you were pulling a sniper out from deep behind enemy territory.
So I would go with what you've got there now.
« Reply #2 on: 26 Sep 2002, 20:28:38 »

Ok, cool. In that case, next question.

Right now, it goes to where ever the player is and joins him. Would that be realistic, or should i have an actual "extraction zone"? Cause maybe the position of the player might be too hot for a chopper to set down or something?

Thanks a bunch.
« Reply #3 on: 26 Sep 2002, 22:43:17 »

I would think you would have fixed points, BUT . . . depending on the situation, the sniper might have to redirect.
So I'm not really sure.
I think its really up to you, and the situation you've selected.
« Reply #4 on: 27 Sep 2002, 02:28:00 »

Yeah, at the moment i'm advising the player to "use caution when calling the chopper" cause the enemy is just about everywhere in the area of operation. But i guess i'll go see what i can do and report back if i get caught.

Thanks again Smiley
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« Reply #5 on: 27 Sep 2002, 02:38:47 »

Normally during an extraction of assets behind enemy lines its required that then friendly units move on their own efforts to a location devoid of enemy activity.  A number of safe extraction locations are set up prior to the mission so that when the objective is completed the units must move to their extraction in order for a transport.

Unless of course it is deemed a rescue attempt, at which time it may be decided that great resources are needed in order to safely extract friendly units behind enemy lines.

If its just a lone sniper team, then all might be sent in for a normal extraction would be a black hawk and pilots, plus one or two extras.  But if its a rescue mission then it might be a blackhawk a couple of gunships and a squad or two of support troops.
« Reply #6 on: 27 Sep 2002, 05:04:34 »

  Well if realism is what you're after then here's some stuff right from the manual on sniper training and operations regarding extractions:

  **Each mission has its specific problems associated with evasion and escape. The plan must conform to these unique problems while exploiting individual abilities, training of sniper team members, and supporting air or boat crews. The following general rules apply to evasion and escape plans for sniper operations:

a. The purpose of the plan is to attempt to save the individual who can no longer complete the assigned mission.

b. When sniper teams are behind enemy lines, the most successful escapes may involve air or water movement away from enemy-held territory.

c. Evasion and escape plans involve the following three phases:

(1) Phase one occurs during entry into the target area.

(2) Phase two occurs near the target area. It allows the sniper team to pursue its mission with a reasonable chance of success.

(3) Phase three occurs after the mission is accomplished. It is often the most difficult time to evade and escape.

d. The sniper team may be required to hide for several days to allow the enemy to become complacent before the team tries to move.

e. In selecting extraction sites, the sniper considers the danger of compromising other activities. He must prepare alternate plans for unforeseen developments.

Extraction by air or water is favored when resources are available and when it will not compromise the mission.

a. Other considerations that favor this method areas follows:

(1) Long distances must be covered.

(2) The time of return is essential.

(3) The enemy does not have air and naval superiority.

(4) Heavily populated hostile areas obstruct exfiltration.

(5) The team cannot be resupplied.

(6) Casualties must be extracted.

b. Several techniques maybe used to extract the team.

(1) Helicopter landing is the best method since the sniper team and its equipment can board the helicopter quickly.

(2) The troop ladder is the second best method. It lets sniper team members board the helicopter, but the helicopter can liftoff while snipers are still on the ladder.

(3) The STABO extraction system allows rapid pickup of one to four soldiers, who are suspended on lines beneath the helicopter. Soldiers are picked up and moved to an area where the helicopter can land. The sniper team then boards the helicopter.

(4) The jungle penetrator retrieves soldiers from areas where helicopters cannot land. It can pickup 1 to 3 persons at a time.

(5) The SPIES can extract soldiers from areas where helicopters cannot land. It can pickup 1 to 10 soldiers at a time.

This method is favored when snipers are not too far from friendly lines or no other means of extraction is available. It is also used when the terrain provides cover and concealment for foot movement and limits the employment of enemy mobile units against the exfiltrating team. Other considerations favoring this method are as follows:

a. Areas along exfiltration routes are uninhabited.

b. The enemy force is widely dispersed or is under such pressure that it is difficult for them to concentrate against the exfiltrating team.

c. The enemy force can stop an air or water extraction.

Vehicle extraction involves the exfiltration of the sniper team to an extraction site for extraction by a wheeled or tracked vehicle. Planning and coordination must be made during the preinsertion phase. Contingency plans must also be made to avoid compromise or any unforeseen situations.

Whew....    that was one long post.. but all usable Wink
hope this helps
« Reply #7 on: 27 Sep 2002, 08:18:14 »

Wow, Kaliyuga and Icarus, you both rule! ;D

That should set me up for every sniper mission i ever make. Thanks a bunch, everyone. This'll be more than sufficient. Smiley
« Reply #8 on: 15 Nov 2002, 13:33:31 »

woah, mega post!
just a little info on what you said about STABO systems and using the for take-off.
The Australian SAS (Special Forces for those of you who live a sheltered life) used to use this method of extraction, especially in the Vietnam War.
But it has since then been stopped since it's so bloody dangerous!
The problem with having men dangling precariously from a moving helicopter is that it disrupts the of gravity. While it isn't much of a problem at slow speeds (extremely slow speeds) it becomes more of a problem when it has to move so slow that men are easily shot and so is the chopper. Hence the reason rappeling and fast-roping is done with a STATIONARY helicopter.

Hope you don't take that as me being overly anal, since you were asking for advice on realism in the first place.

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