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Grendel

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NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« on: 07 Apr 2004, 00:01:45 »
Screw the Barrett, the AW-50, the KSKV, and yes...screw even the Cheytac  :)  In looking for an HTI rifle for my upcomming Sniper/Spotter MOD, I found a new king in town...

Theres an Anti-Materiel rifle out there that makes the others look like pea shooters.  The NTW-20 is a 20mm (along with barrel/bolt groups for 14.5 and 12.7mm) bolt action rifle designed to deal out punisment in the extreme.  

To do it right, one would have to do up a model for the complete gun, as well as seperate models of the gun broken down into barrel/reciever groups for travel.  The separate components could be configured as "LAW"'s so they could be "slung" on the back, and the actual rifle could be configured as a fixed MG (this is not a gun you can just run around with or fire standing). I can use scripting trickery to make it all work (from assembly down to adjusting the direction of the gun when emplaced and special effects).  

Here is a link to a site with specs:
http://www.club.guns.ru/eng/ntw20.html

If anyone is willing to undertake this daunting rifle let me know...

-Grendel
« Last Edit: 07 Apr 2004, 00:04:41 by Grendel »

Homefry31464

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #1 on: 07 Apr 2004, 00:23:34 »
That thing's a beast!  This would be awesome to see in OFP.

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #2 on: 07 Apr 2004, 10:05:11 »
Very possible, I think
Just need to do lot's of addweapon, removeweapon etc.
With a few models etc.

For a start, I would suggest making the weapon on the bipod, and get an anim for the operater (who would be prone)

Then make the LAW-configed disasembled object.
Then work on the scripts :)

Good luck.
If you want, I could have a go at part of the model.. I couldn't texture it tough.
And I'm not 100% brilliant of models either.. But am willing to give it a go ;)

I would love to see this weapon in game!!!!
- Ben

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #3 on: 08 Apr 2004, 00:57:57 »
Hey Homefry and Ben!

Yeah, this would be an outstanding addition!  

I wish I knew how to do any of the non-scripting stuff...I could definitely script all the add/remove weapon stuff but I have never tried modelling, textureing, or config editing :(  


Quote
For a start, I would suggest making the weapon on the bipod, and get an anim for the operater (who would be prone)

Then make the LAW-configed disasembled object.

This is exactly what I was thinking.  Once the complete rifle was modelled, you could just separate the barrel from the reciever and make them two different "LAWs", so you would'nt be starting from scratch or anything.  

I've seen custom animations on VIT's KORD and such, so it seems pretty possible to do a prone animation.

Anything you could do on this would help make it a reality, Ben.  Maybe I should post something in the recruitmnet depot to find some texturers and such.

-Grendel


DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #4 on: 13 Apr 2004, 18:23:29 »
Sorry about the delays etc.
My OFP wasn't working, thats fixed now, now my computer is being really unstable, and I can't open O2 or buldozer.
Other games won't work, programs, like Internet Explorer crash a lot..
Time for a reformat soon.. But I'm getting Windows 2k soon, so I'll wait for that to reformat.

Thats basicly why it's taking so long ;)
Does anyone have any good side views of the weapon?
It'll make making the weapons soo much easier ;)
- Ben

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DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #6 on: 13 Apr 2004, 21:31:04 »
Cheers mate :)
Allthough I would love a strait on side view for modeling the out lines, they'se should be not too bad as reference :)

Thanks a lot :)
- Ben

HuNtA

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #7 on: 17 Apr 2004, 10:22:12 »
that is 1 f***ing massive gun, but do you really think it would be practical in OFP? Dont U think it would make the game a bit too easy?

jus my opinion

bigdog632

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #8 on: 17 Apr 2004, 22:35:53 »
isnt that a 2 man gun
it like requires two guys to carry it
due to the weight

Kaliyuga

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #9 on: 17 Apr 2004, 22:58:13 »
according to the stats it only weighs  26-29 kilos so I wouldnt see it needing two men to carry neccesarily


DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #10 on: 18 Apr 2004, 17:51:16 »
Is it not more that is is quite big, and also as a sniper/spotter team...?
I'll get O2 working soon :'(
- Ben

bigdog632

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #11 on: 19 Apr 2004, 22:37:46 »
im not good at weight conversion but thats about 50-65 pounds i think
add that to the other gear and include long foot marches through varying weather and climate conditions id say it would be 2 man carry
because that would wear out the sniper and a tired sniper cant shoot as well

but tis is OFPland and things are different

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #12 on: 20 Apr 2004, 03:09:54 »
This most definitely needs to be set up as a two man system, assembled at the shooting location!!!  

First of all this is realistic..."only" 26-29 kilos...  :o ::)  Those of you who feel this is an insignifigant amount have never rucked a full combat load!!!
Also, if configured as a normal rifle, a unit would be able to fire while standing...I'd like to meet someone who could pull that off with this beast.

Second, it solves the "too easy" aspect of play balancing: It will take a lot more deliberation and planning to employ this way:  You would have to have both the sniper and spotter alive naturaly, and not only would you have to take time to assemble the rifle, you would also have to spend a decent amount of time breaking it back down again (I have a script that will allow the sniper to drag the rifle small distances in a pinch).  Also consider that the relatively small magazine capacity helps keep this thing from being some kind of uber weapon.

Thanks to those who are taking an interest in this rifle! I can't wait untill it becomes an OFP reality!

-Grendel

bigdog632

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #13 on: 20 Apr 2004, 04:44:02 »
i read about this rifle a long time ago in a book i bought i wish i could find the book though lol
it had another sniper rifle in it that was a 15.2mm that fired a tungsten alloy projectile at terrific velocity and had great penetration


also the M2HB can mount a scope and be used as a "sniper" rifle it isnt as accurate as todays 50 cals but it can be accurized that would make an interesting addon and all you would need is a way to mount a scope and make it more accurate

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #14 on: 20 Apr 2004, 20:30:13 »
The 15.2mm rifle is the Steyr IWS 2000.  It is still in the advanced development stage, and you can find the specs here:

http://www.steyr-aug.com/amr.htm

Another interesting HTI/Anti-Material weapon is the 25mm Payload Rifle, developed by Barrett to fire a "dumb" impact detonating version of the OCSW 25mm Airbusting projectile.  It is based closely off of their .50 cal series of rifles, and all one would need to do is use a pre-existing barret O2 model (of which there are several) shorten the barrel (yes, it is signifigantly shorter than the .50 cals) and modify the muzzle brake.  Here is a rather in-depth article with several photos (including a close up of the new muzzle brake).  Recoil is said to be similar to a 12 guage 3.5inch mag.  Very zesty rifle indeed. :)

http://www.smallarmsreview.com/pdf/payload.pdf

Another topic of discussion I would like people to think about is round damage.  In addition to configuring the bullet's properties in the cpp file, I have a script that can do some nifty things with projectiles.  It uses a hit EH on the target end to produce some new terminal effects.  The problem is, that in order for the "hit" EH to function properly, the round has to do a percentage of damage to the target.  Soooo, the bullet should be configured to do enough damage to Tanks and APC's to activate the EH, but not outright destroy them with one shot (although it should be powerful enough to disable a turret in 2-3 direct hits). The script adds particle effects for steel on steel sparks, as well as neat bit that can simulate projectile/spall ricochet inside the vehicle randomly injuring crew members :) ! Anti-Vehicle Sniping is finaly here for more than light wheeled vehicles!  Just think of the added tactical possibilities.  A squad is set up in a hasty ambush with HTI sniper support.  The HTI snipers see a column of APC's and tanks approacing...While the AT squaddies use thier limited supply of rockets  to engage the heavy armor, the snipers begin engaging the APCs going first for the turrets to silence thier weapons, and in the process wound/kill several crew and mech infantry while they are still inside.  The remaining survivors are eliminated as the exit their stricken APCs.  Also, the script can activate special effects based on the type of vehicle: shooting a chopper will give an excellent chance to induce a tail rotor malfunction script for instance.

-Grendel
« Last Edit: 20 Apr 2004, 20:54:32 by Grendel »

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #15 on: 24 Apr 2004, 13:18:58 »
Sounds good :D
I'll try and redownload O2 now.. See if that helps..

I think the errors etc started when I tried to run O2 without OFP installed... Does that bugger anything up?
- Ben

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #16 on: 24 Apr 2004, 18:28:35 »
If I remember, the buldozer viewer needs OFP installed and the original disk in the drive...But I'm certainly out of my element giving advice about o2.

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #17 on: 27 Apr 2004, 17:06:42 »
I redownloaded O2 (Lost the old install file.. Buldozer was there though)
And it works fine :)
Only old version of O2 need the disc (The newer ones look for a registery entery)

I'll start soon :)

Hmm, y'know how it's a modified barret.. Why not remake a existing barret? :)
- Ben

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #18 on: 27 Apr 2004, 17:54:08 »
Quote
Hmm, y'know how it's a modified barret.. Why not remake a existing barret?
Precisely! ;D  All one would need to do is cut the barrel length, make it slightly thicker, widen the muzzle brake, and beef up the reciever's fore-end a little to accomadate the two recoil springs (reference the picture of a side by side comparison in the article linked to above).  I'm sure someone who is familiar with O2 could do this in a very short period of time.  

Additionally, for the damage value of the ammunition, the 30mm AP round fired by the VIT Pack's BMP-3s would be the perfect reference point as it triggers the "hit" EH of every ground unit short of a MBT (I would tweak it slightly so it would activate a chopper's "hit" EH as well).  I am guessing that you could find the VIT Pack values by de-PBOing the files and look at the config.cpp.  Ideally, the round should have the damage potential of the AP round, but also be explosive like the HE round (this way the round explodes regardless of hitting dirt or an object).  It is helpfull to think of this rifle as an accurized semi-automatic long range grenade launcher.

To further enhance play-balancing issues (and prevent this from becoming an uber-weapon), I would tweak the recoil values to mimic the .50 cal AW-50 that Smith did.  It pretty much requires the shooter to be prone if you want to have the rifle return close to target after recoil.  You can still shoot it standing or crouched, but if you do you end up looking at the sky after every shot, and makes follow up shots a royal be-yatch.  Also, the rifle will only hold 5 rounds at a time (4 in mag, 1 in chamber).  

I will probably attempt to do all this (ya gotta start somewhere), although as it will be my first forray into addon editing, it could take forever.  So if anyone with experience (Ben  :)) can work on this, I'm sure the OFP commuinity would appreciate it immensely!

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #19 on: 27 Apr 2004, 19:36:16 »
Heheh, less work for me! :P

All sounds good though :)

I should have the new weapon model by tommorow

What's happened to the bipod idea?
What about having it able to be fired crouched etc, but still have the bipod?
Like a mounter MG (Configed as one), that has less recoil that every other way(Standing)

Any Barret you can suggest for modifying?
- Ben

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #20 on: 28 Apr 2004, 18:43:53 »
The bipod only/mg configuration should definitely be reserved for weapons like the NTW-20, which are not man-portable or possible to fire off-hand.

The 25mm Payload Rifle "only" ;) weighs 30.5 pounds, which is comparable to a GPMG like the M-240B which weighs about 22 pounds empty.  Not fun to lug around by any means, but definitely do-able.  Also, it is theoreticaly possible to fire off-hand (although it would be extremely uncomfortable due to much less body mass being involved in soaking up recoil).  Thus IMHO, it should be configured as a "normal" rifle-type weapon, but with massive recoil in the crouched and standing positions.  In the prone, I would configure the recoil to be signifigant enought to put the shooter off target after each shot, requiring adjustment of aim (this is actually realistic for just about any high powered rifle fired with optics, and is one of the the main reasons snipers require a spotter {an issue addressed in my soon to be released MOD BTW}).  I would definitely model all sniper type weapons with bipods extended (a nit pick I have with some rifle models out there).

I will look for a suitable pre-existing Barrett out there with good textures and accurate modeling, and naturaly I'll ask the author for permission to modify his files.  This should signifiganly cut development time.  

More on round configuration:  The 25mm round does most of it's work through the armour penetrating HEAT warhead, not sheer kenetic energy (actually much more efficient and easier on the shooter in terms of recoil and weapon system size and weight).  Thus the round should have a lower velocity and more pronounced arc than, say, a .50 cal.  Ballistic data on the 25mm is not forthcomming so In my approxamation I would say it should have ballistics (for game purposes) similar to the JAM 7,62mm SD round.  This will also help in terms of play balancing and make the player have to consider trade offs/pros and cons when chosing it over a HTI rifle with higher velocity and less arc (higher hit probability) for instance.  Giving the player distinctly different options to achieve a task helps to immerse them into the game world, and is very critical to replayability and such.  The 25mm would have the following advantages:

Man-Portable and highly mobile, larger magazine capacity, consistent armor penetration regardless of range, signifigant indirect damage capability for soft targets

Disadvantages: Higher learning curve due to more pronounced trajectory and lower velocity would make engaging moving targets very difficult.

The NTW-20 advantages:

Two ammo types increase flexibility/lethality; AP (slightly more raw direct damage than the 25mm, but no indirect, and increased chance of injuring crew due to spalling) and HE (less direct/indirect damage than the 25mm), High velocity increases hit probability.  Definitely the "cool factor" :)

Disadvantages: Two-man weapon sytstem taking longer to deploy, Fairly rigidly emplaced once positioned, lower magazine capacity.

Well if you waded through all this... thanks! I tend to be a bit detailed about this stuff ;)

-Grendel

BTW, finally downloaded PBO decrypt/makePBO and played around with a Barrett.  After some experimentation, the ideal damage value for HTI ammo is as such:
25mm HEAT:
Code: [Select]
hit=175;
indirectHit=50;
indirectHitRange=5.000000;
explosive=1;

20mm AP
Code: [Select]
hit=225;
20mm HE
Code: [Select]
hit=100;
indirectHit=25;
indirectHitRange=2.500000;
explosive=1;

These values seem to be pretty balanced, taking 2-3 shots of "25mm" to disable an APC (without any additional scripting trickery).  20mm AP will usually yield a catastrophic kill in 2 shots.  
« Last Edit: 28 Apr 2004, 22:41:22 by Grendel »

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #21 on: 29 Apr 2004, 21:31:11 »
Quote
Well if you waded through all this... thanks! I tend to be a bit detailed about this stuff ;)
Quote
Yeah, a bit :P

Just to clear a few things up
Are both weapons (I just noticed that we are talking 'bout two, not one :P) the same model of gun with different amo (Thus the different recoil)?

Sorry, just you kinda lost me, as I've not had time to read the last page completly.. Thats what I think I'll do now ::)

Lemme know where I can download the model when you find one, and what changes you need done to it :)
- Ben

Ball Zack

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #22 on: 02 May 2004, 01:31:44 »
Barrett is making a new sniper rifle, the XM-109 Payload rifle.  It's chambered for 25mm and is designed specifically to "engage and destroy armoured targets out to 2000m".  Magazine holds 5 rounds.  Recoil is said to be only slightly higher than the .50cal M-82 thanks to an improved muzzle brake.  Size and weight are also comparable to the M-82.  So once again Barrett still kicks everyones' ass, and America rules.  Oh and did I mention it's semi auto?
« Last Edit: 02 May 2004, 01:32:05 by Ball Zack »

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #23 on: 02 May 2004, 06:42:58 »
Ball Zack, thanks for posting the "official" nomenclature of the XM-109! for those just seeing this and not willing to wade through the above posts, refer to the april 20th post (up a bit) for the link to the excellent small arms review article link.

Ben, yeah I guess I wasn't too clear about the fact that the 25mm Payload Rifle and the NTW-20 are completely different weapons and concepts (from a gameplay standpoint).  The 25mm should use the modified barrett model, and the NTW-20 will have to be done up from scratch as the two man carried, assembled as an "emplaced MG" type bipod only rig.  

The only recent Barrett Model I found was Cheeky Monkey's Barrett Pack (strangley, it only had one Barrett and a WA-2000 ???).  I'm no one to judge addon making, but the textures could be a bit better, and it just seems like the model is...disproportionally small (skinny)  in the 1st person view.  I have done lots of hands on with this gun in the real world, and trust me, it seems much "heftier" in real life.  But it is a starting point at least... provided the author doesn't mind giving us permission :).  I found the pack on OFP.info.

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #24 on: 11 May 2004, 18:18:54 »
Downloading the Barret pack
Whats to change?

:)
- Ben
PS, you wanna try emailing the guy?

Grendel

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #25 on: 11 May 2004, 20:28:48 »
Actually, let me look at the barret pack that showed up recently here at OFPEC's addon depot.  Looks promising...My cpu is still down >:( havn't had time at home to mess with it lately.

-Grendel

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #26 on: 12 May 2004, 19:29:33 »
I De-pbo-ed that Monkeys barret pack.. After playing with it a bit, of course :P

It's model it okay, not the most detailed, but still totaly fine/usable
If the barret in OFPEC's addon place is better, use that, if not, the Barret Pack one will be fine (Assuming we get permission)

Oh, the files aren't binarized, so it's really easy to open :)

- Ben

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #27 on: 23 May 2004, 11:53:44 »
Right, I've tried the Long Range Sniper pack on OFPEC
The textures aren't as good as the barret pack
I've not tried de-pboing it (Too busy taking out Guba at at 1km :P I like that weapon :D)
But I know the Barret Pack isn't binarized or anything (I've opened it in O2)

Actrualy.. Scrap what I just said... In the readme of the long range thing ::
"//Using:
You can use any enclosed files from my .PBO if that can help you to create more attracting addons.
Just dont forget me in your credits...
No commercial use...doh!"

Basicly, use what you want, just credit me :)
Only thing is, it's a modified M82.. I think the scope looks bigger, but I can't see anything too different..
Hmm, the pack also comes with the original barret (The standard looking one) that he modified, so I guess we could modify that... Can't remeber what the texures are like on that though

Right, I'll modify that one.. What'da I have to do :)
- Ben

scanger

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #28 on: 09 Jun 2004, 04:12:13 »
i hate to bring threads back up but this i feel is important enough.

the P3D model of the "M82A1 Special Long-Range" is 95% my original Barrett M82A1M

I wasn't even contacted about the use if it....i just saw in the addons depot that it mentioned me so i tried it. The texture job is totally changed and config file well modified too i'll give that, but the model has about 5-6 additions and it's released(complete with muzzle flash bug)

but not only that, my OLD version 1.0 of my barrett is provided with the pack to make the scope work....cos the scope was ODOL and non changeable to an inexperienced modder.
SO basically, people who add this in will now overwrite my Newer version 1.1, which doesn't help my plight at all.

I gave limited permission to use models/textures etc but there are always boundries to copyright, scopes/stocks are one thing, 95% of the gun is something else.
even my firing sound was used.

For this reason I will now be remaking the Barrett M82/M107, I have some neat plans and additions for it, but i'm only getting started on it so  i can't give a timeframe on it....i want it to be as good as it can be...

u can see the ripped apart models here:
http://scanger.turmace.com/downloads/evidence

Scanger
JMG Addons
http://scanger.turmace.com

I have nothing against modders who wish to use my models as reference or to use/modify the original models once i'm contacted first, i don't want to just surf around and find my stuff with somebody elses nametag on it.....crediting is one thing but you should always let the original author know first, my readmes all have email addresses in them.

On my original version 1.0 i used some of FliPeRs textures without asking him...he was unimpressed to say the least and i now understand why, the WHOLE reason for version 1.1 was to totally remove all of FliPeRs material so i don't want 1.0 getting a revamp now.

and as you specified:

Quote
//Using:
You can use any enclosed files from my .PBO if that can help you to create more attracting addons.
Just dont forget me in your credits...
No commercial use...doh!

this quote from the Special Long Range version cannot be followed through given that the model isn't theirs to give away. contact me for the model if needed.
« Last Edit: 09 Jun 2004, 06:37:46 by scanger »

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #29 on: 09 Jun 2004, 19:32:55 »
Uh?
What one was yours? The original one included in with the Long Range pack? The one that was edited

I think he said that he used your model in the readme, and the scope etc

So, can we use your model for the, NTW-20 (Is that the right one?)
 :-*
Heheh


Grendel, you still there? ???

Cya
- Ben

scanger

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #30 on: 09 Jun 2004, 22:52:51 »
Yes, the original one provided with the pack was mine(JMGBarrettM82), the model he uses is that model, just with minor additions like the holes on the front etc.

he said in readme:
Quote
I made the p3d model from the MACK's JMG Barrett M82. I modify it but I use the MACK's
model as guidelines. I also used other files from the JMG Barrett that somes come from FlipeR.

the P3D was used, not as a guideline or reference drawing but as the whole 3d model of the gun.

the main point is i wasn't contacted, you always contact the author.
and my version 1 is provided with his pack, which will then overwrite my version 1.1 if installed, so that's not acceptable.

feel free to use the model for your NTW-20, once i know and am credited i'm a happy camper :D

i've contacted him about the model, but the email bounced, i'll try again in a minute to see.
« Last Edit: 09 Jun 2004, 22:55:51 by scanger »

DBR_ONIX

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #31 on: 13 Jun 2004, 11:42:52 »
So we have a model to edit? :D
Thanks!

I'll start soon, I've got to reinstall OFP (And everything else on the computer) after putting win 2K on the computer

I'm also having modem probs, so will be ofline for a few days, as I'm getting broadband!

Cya soon :P
- Ben


Nulear_Man

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Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #32 on: 11 Jul 2004, 08:21:27 »
yo i played around with a 50cal while i was bored and created an Anti-Tank Rifle Capable of taking out almost anything in 1 hit, also i Made a Nuclear Version With A Massive blast range (100m) and one with a Devastating Blast range (500m) ammos mostly used for effects

DBR_ONIX

  • Guest
Re:NTW-20 Anti-Materiel Rifle:The king of HTI
« Reply #33 on: 11 Jul 2004, 13:13:31 »
Sounds fun :D
:p

Only one thing missing.. Grendel :(
Anyone seen him lately?

- Ben