OFPEC Forum

Missions Depot => Mission Discussion => OFP - Reviewed Missions => Topic started by: Sui on 21 Oct 2003, 09:57:38

Title: (Review Completed) [SP] The Black Gap
Post by: Sui on 21 Oct 2003, 09:57:38
Just when you thought this mission was dead, never to see the light of day again! It's the 'one year on' anniversary special! ;D

Note: Beta testing is complete. I still appreciate any feedback you may have for me though

The Black Gap

(http://www.ofpec.com/images/depot/full/SP_1376_TheBlackGapLarge.jpg)

U.S. command are using spearheads of heavy armour to push for more Soviet controlled territory. With the Soviet defenses still surprised and unorganised, this tactic has been working well... until now. The latest advance has been slowed by poor weather and roving bands of AT infantry. Your Airborne infantry platoon has been called in to clear the way for the tanks.


I've reworked a lot of things in this latest version, and gotten the action happening much more along the lines of how I want it :)

This mission has come very close to being scrapped on a number of occasions, simply because I've overcomplicated it ;D
It was made with replayability in mind, which means there are many things I have to check to make sure they're working right.

As such, I would be very appreciative if you could please include the following information in any feedback you're kind enough to give me :) :
And of course anything else you think is pertinent.

Get it here (Release v1.00)
You can grab it here (http://www.ofpec.com/missions_depot/index.php?action=details&id=188).

No unofficial Addons are required.
Made using OFP v1.96 (Resistance is required)

Anyway, hope you enjoy it. Any feedback at all is greatly appreciated :)
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Kaliyuga on 21 Oct 2003, 10:11:21
 Link's not workin ... :(

but I'll give it a go when i get the chance to download it ;)

Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Sui on 21 Oct 2003, 10:15:23
Oops... my typing is getting to be as bad as my French :P

Should work ok now...
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Kaliyuga on 21 Oct 2003, 10:34:16
 that did the trick ...   ;)
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Tim Pink on 21 Oct 2003, 10:34:43
oh happy day oh happy day

im downloading now, i cant wait to play it
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: dmakatra on 21 Oct 2003, 11:02:24
Cool! I'll download this as soon as I'm back from school.

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Hawkins on 21 Oct 2003, 12:16:00
Please just bear with me on this one, as it's still pretty rough at the moment. This mission has come very close to being scrapped on a number of occasions, simply because I've overcomplicated it ;D
It was made with replayability in mind, which means there are many things I have to check to make sure they're working right.

No no no!  :noo: ;D Don't scrap it. :P It was fun! Didn't even lag that much once I lost a squad and wasted some enemies.  :-X ;D

The first objective was seize the pass and the last was to take over the platoon. The first one didn't tick off. ;)
My LT got hit by a sniper. The platoon interface is nice. I like it. Simple and easy to use. Just that I couldn't switch my platoons formation for some reason. :-\
The formation quide was great. It helped a lot! :)
The difficulty was ok. Not too hard, but I was expecting some armor. ;)
I don't speak french so I don't know. ;) :P

Didn't encounter any enemy when moveing to the pass. Where are those AT squads? I'll probably try this again and use a different tactic when attackin' the pass this time. ;)
What's stage 1? :P
When I was ordered to blow up the roadblock, I got a LM_BackTreeline on the radio. A faulty cfgradiothingy I believe. ;)
During the last cutscene, use disableradio since I was getting reports of tanks from my men. ;)

So far this is ok. ;D Anctiously waiting for the next version! :)

Hawkins

Edit:

Gave it another try. :)

This time my LT survived through the whole mission. Everything worked smoothly. Met some AT patrols too and wasted them. I had two objectives: Seize the enemy OP point and Seize the pass. ;) This time the seize pass objective ticked too and I didn't get the radio error I mentioned before. :) Waiting for the next version. Unless there's some other things needed to be tested? ;D

Hawkins
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Batdog on 21 Oct 2003, 12:53:34
Sounds cool. 8)
Downloadin now. Proply give my review tommorow after school.  :D

Rattin
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: dmakatra on 21 Oct 2003, 16:47:43
Just a note to all ppl trying to download this mission: It will not work pressing the open button, you need download it completley. Maybe you should put that in your first post Sui?

OK... Here we go. This beta can be quite strange since I'm going to tab in and out of the game like a fool and writing my german homework in notepad all the time.

OVERVIEW:
Niiiiiiiiiiiiice! 2 things though: The Chinook looks a bit fuzzy and the shadow for the pic is a bit wrong. Even with those minor problems this is one of the nicest overviews I've seen so far.
INTRO:
None? Boooooo!
BRIEFING:
Very good. Better than Facile Ground's if you ask me. Facile Ground had a briefing where you was all fuzzy in the head when clicking on links. You didn't knew what you had read and not read. I especially liked the formation description. I can't wait until the ltn is dead! ;D
But if you ask me, MG gunners should be close to me in formation as well as the grenadiers. Also, I think you should add 2 more LAW ammo, you get them anyhow in the ammo crates later and it's just unnessesary to play around with the AIs radio-action commands. And BTW, where the f*ck is my M21?! ;D
Have you even touched the skill bar? All my soldiers are veterans.
MISSION:
Haha! Lol, good one! First I thought you had accidently used titlecut instead of titletext. Anyway, of we go! Nice idea with the formation yellow dot, but I think you should be given the choice of turning it off in the radio. And what about adding Vektorbosons chopper dust script at the landing? I love the drop command!
Russian contacts that close to base? Forget it. They wouldn't come that close in daylight.
Is there a way to change the direction of the markers depending on the direction the squad is moving/looking?
60 meters? You can say 62.751245 meters instead. Use round numbers. 20, 50, 100, 150, 200, 300, etc.
For being squads that can hinder the US army tanks they are in very small groups. 2 man squads? You oughta be kiddn. That's no AT squad, that's a patrol. And I don't think anyone would have engaged in a firefight between a 2-man vs. a platoon, make em run away, hide, attack&flee tactics.
I would like to see a radio option showing the statistics of the other squads. Basics stuff like men left but perhaps also some more advanced stuff like number of units they have killed, if anyone has runned out of ammo, if someone is wounded, if a guy is wounded, who is wounded, and if a guy is dead, who is dead, etc.
I'm no millitary genius but if I am 2nd in command shouldn't I be in the HQ squad?
A fortified outpost? Take it down? If you're going to follow the realism in the mission so far the guy who said that would actually say "What should we do, HQ?". Of course this will not effect the rest of the mission since HQ hears this message but it's a minor detail I would like to see fixed.
Nice. This sounds like a lot of fun. But I would like to see a small dialog between Papa Bear and HQ squad and see if we should take it down or not. Also, Charlie squad started to move before the order was given.
Oh there was the outpost! I thought it was straight ahead to the west but nope. Maybe you should add something in the radio message like "Look to the south!" or something.
I've been spotted. Ah man! That's great. Engage! Bam! Bam! Yay! We beated them. My squad did nuthin, good ol' Charlie Squad, you can always trust him. But don't give AI handguns, they can't handle them.
Ah maen! F**k Charlie squad! They were too slow... :-\ Anyway, back to formation!
Uh... Don't the russians react when their OP gets blown away? I was expecting a counter attack of some sort... does that do anything?
I'm getting close... but the marsch there was boring. Nothing happend after the OP, could you at least add some music or a hind flying over ones head or something? Perhaps something like the mine clearing in Facile Ground? Maybe a conversation between the squads or the ppl in my squad? That's one of the areas where most missions fall. The conversations and the social side. That's why I love Devilchasers Nightwatch. (LOL! OFPECs auto censor is strange. ;D The real name of the mission is N-i-g-h-t-w-a-t-c-h)
The squads kept firing like maniacs on the tower. Don't know why.
Wait. The fire at the M2 on top of that tower. You know how the AI handles empty M2's, you have to setcaptive the M2 after it's man is nailed.
I'm sorry but then it gets all laggy(it's my computer, I guarantee it). I'll see if I can make it later when I got more patience. But you really have to fix that M2 bug, all my men is firing at it. This is a great mission so far. I liked Facile Ground but I didn't think it would deserve 10/10 since it wasn't groundbreaking. It was just a combined arms assault with some extra spice in it. However, this IS groundbreaking with the command engine and all. Keep up the good work.

Oh, and if you need voice samples; Sign me up!

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Tim Pink on 22 Oct 2003, 04:59:19
Hey Sui

I loved the mission

Nice overview and briefing.

The first objective was to destroy the OP, which i did and it ticked of.
The last was to Support the 5th amoured in capturing Arudy and that ticked off as well.
The LT died once from a sniper near the OP but it only happened once out of the 3 times i played it.
I liked the interface, simple, easy to use.

The annoying part was waiting for the other squads to form up near the flanking position and when assaulting the town of Arudy it took 4ever for them to get there.

On the way to the Flanking position i think you could get a way with adding patrols to fight because even if the L'Espace Noir force heard the gunfire the crap visibility would still allow you to flank without giving your position away.

The assault on the pass was bit difficult but after breaking through the other squads pretty much just overrun any opposition and the town of Arudy was a push over.

Other wise i loved the mission, good job.
R u planning to add an ending cutscene?

Thanx
Tim





Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Kaliyuga on 22 Oct 2003, 05:20:16
 Played it once today....


 First objective was to take out the OP which I did.....  and grabbed myself a AT4 while I was at it  

 Moved into position for the assault on the pass....   battle here was good.. I lost my only two guys in this firefight...    Used my AT4 on the fuel truck parked on the hill early on...   :o    

  One thing I noticed is that after the area is clear and the roadblock is blown up the tanks still went around instead of using the road..  I think you could fix that by moving the bunker and tower just a little farther from the road perhaps....  (just by a meter or two would probably be sufficient)

 I found the assault of Arudy to be a little too easy as well.. but the tanks got in there a good ways ahead of the infantry so they did a good job clearing it out for us. (on the way there I called out a tank somehow in the town over the radio when there was no way I could have seen it over the hill)  

 and I got the radio messages  about clearing the tower after I already had.. but that's just me

 Overall.. the formation guide is nice.....  you can't even see it if you actually stay in formation so I like it :)

 I'd say just make the battle at Arudy a tad bit tougher.... or else let the infantry move up sooner after the tanks head in.

:cheers:
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: asmodeus on 22 Oct 2003, 10:34:14
Hey there Sui!

Well, I had very limited time to check this out, but I did give it a quick go and have a few things to mention.   ;)

1.  Are you planning on using a dust script for the helicopters?

2.  IMO you should have an savegame when the ch-47 takes off after dropping everyone at the LZ.  

3.  I think there should be an option to turn off the Formation Guide.  It's cool and all, but it distracted me..  (ooo what pretty flashing lights...*bang*  dead...)   ::)

And that's what happened... I got shot by the first enemy we came across while running down a hill!  I was just starting to aim at him, but it was too late..  lol   ;)

I'll try it again later, if I have the chance.  I liked the briefing, overview, scripting and ideas so far!  (and the part at the first in the ch47 is funny)   ;D

l8rz

Asmo

P.S.  Love your website!   :beat:   ;)   :P   8)
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Captain Winters on 22 Oct 2003, 15:03:59
Hey Hey!
YAYY! This better be the sequel to Facile Ground! I'll test it when I have some time. Proably by saturday!

Of course school is what I'm in now  :'( >:(

Tanks! 8)
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Sui on 23 Oct 2003, 02:58:35
Thanks everybody... feedback is much appreciated :)

I'm just about to take my PC out the back and shoot it (I'm upgrading to a luvly P4 :)), so the next version may not be around for a week or so. I've written all this stuff down though... as I thought, I'm going to be making some fairly major changes.

Just addressing a few points...

I've also since discovered that I left a debugging condition in which means you always get the same first objective :(
The next version will have it choose between one of two. At least this way you always get to listen to the russian radio at the OP ;)

So if your guys are shooting at it until it explodes, they probably saved your arse ;)
Thanks guys. I'll be making those and many many more improvements for the next version.

I'm eager to hear any more feedback or comments, if you've got 'em :)
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: dmakatra on 23 Oct 2003, 07:57:50
The thing is, they'll keep shooting at the M2 until their ammo runs out. And they can't aim so they'll never blow that M2. They don't save my arse, they get me killed by not covering me when I'm under fire(and lag).

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Sui on 23 Oct 2003, 08:20:19
Hmmm.... valid point.

I just had it happen to me... the entire platoon was putting it's fire down on the M2 (which you're right, they can't hit), so they got butchered by the infantry... I'll see what sort of fix I can cook up ;)
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: LCD on 23 Oct 2003, 12:24:06
ill test it i think :P

wen i have taam :P ;)

LCD OUT
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Tim Pink on 23 Oct 2003, 15:02:38
i just found a problem with the command interface.
when i took over as platoon leader this anoying radio call kept saying "group, move to tree 10 o'clock" and it would not stop.

is this a bug?

Tim
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: Sui on 29 Nov 2003, 00:32:07
Sorry for being incommunicado for the last month or so guys...

Upon upgrading my PC the motherboard cooked itself and the brand new CPU I had put in it.

Anyway, I'm currently fighting with ASUS (and have been for the last month) to get them to honour their warranty for selling me dodgey parts...

Anyway, this mission is definately still in the pipeline. I've got a HUGE list of improvements I plan to implement, but won't be able to until I get my machine up and running again.

Thanks for your patience... I'll be back in full swing hopefully within 2 weeks.
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: asmodeus on 29 Nov 2003, 23:00:28
That sucks Sui!!

Good luck fighting the corporate battle.  I know how that goes.   :-\

I look forward to testing the next version!   8)

Asmo
Title: Re:Done, Done... onto the next one...
Post by: SEAL84 on 20 Jan 2004, 04:19:27
Grabbing mission now...will play tomorrow.

*hopes all is well with Sui*
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 23 Jan 2005, 06:22:29
*bumpity bump*

The cheese ads in my country are always saying that 'good things take time'. ;D
So here we go, revised version. Please check the first post in this thread for download location...
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: dmakatra on 23 Jan 2005, 10:55:22
Allright! I knew you'd update it! Maybe 'cause you told me so at '85 forums but whatever. ;D

*Downloading but with a different machine than last time. Huzzah!* ;D

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: GI-YO on 23 Jan 2005, 11:25:08
Always been a fan of your missions so look forward to this.

OVERVIEW - fine does its job. Nice picky

INTRO - WOW awesome. All realy good except some of the soldiers at the start in the newly captured town keep aiming there guns at stuff, and the medic by the body bags looks like he's just about to shoot the corpses. The airport part was wicked all the swicthmove/playmove stuff made them look like real people not robots. Why are they all standing in the rain?

BRIEFING - Good again lots of information on the assault, on what forces we'll be fighting with. You mentined somewhere visibility down to 500 meters, to me that seems like quite alot cause the M-16 spose to be accuate out to 300-350 meters, or did you mean 50 meters? only a minor thing though....

MISSION - the old falling asleep in a helicopter gag  ;D i like it! We land and move to the SW to secure the perimenter (sp), look at those yellow flashing things. that is a very groovy thing making it easier to understand whats happenin and where to go, check my formation and then move off in to the unknown...Hear some gun shots to the west and contact is reported over the radio. Cant see far enough to shoot at any reds so keep my eyes peeled, then im ordered to run and intercept the recce squad (seems quite risky sending only alpha into the unknown to chase an unknown amount of men, could be a trap) but i run to slow and am ordered back into formation, than a contact to the east but again i cant see much, wondering if i'll shoot anyone at all today  ???...Right then we near the enemy positions and we hold fire and i scout ahead to see whats there, lots of reds maybe i will get some action today, after the assualt launches i get shot quite rapidly and die. again i try but this time move forward slowly looking for targets but become the target of a sniper who dispatches me and most of my squad. again i try.This time is better i move my squad forward putting down lots of fire dropping reds as they come thick and fast. As i move into the camp area i become overall commander and try to use the control interface but all the reds are gone  >:( this tools looks awesome and im sure we'll be seeing it in future missions,

OUTRO - like the big bang and the satasfaction of seeing them tanks roll, i did that, me and my sqauds.

duration 33 mins
score 1240
kills
officer
machine gunner
soldier

OVERALL - this is one awesome mission with no faults that let it down, except the one that was mentioned earlier about the constand "9move to bush 4 oclock" etc etc once you have taken total command. and the men in the intro with guns up and aiming. Good stuff.

GI-YO
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: dmakatra on 23 Jan 2005, 12:16:51
OVERVIEW:
Nice. You're gonna change the head picture right? 'Cause you used the same in Facile Ground...
INTRO:
Missed it, 'cause I had my BAS mod folder activated, and y'know BAS and their error messages... ::) Besides I had winamp with Tubular Bells playing so I'd missed all the audio anyway. :P
BRIEFING:
That's one nice briefing I say. However, I thought the 2nd lieutie was the 2nd IC? Anyway, I'm no military freak, although I'd like to know everything like that so I can design realistic missions myself. Dammit, now I have to change my own project. ;D
Hmmm... You don't give me much to play with. And I freakkin knew you'd include that bleeding M203! ;D
MISSION:
Of course I'll let him down, who does he think I am? ;D
He-hey! Chopperdust! Nice! ;D
I think you should remove command of my squad untill needed. I could order them to eject and stuff.
Ah, why me? St00pid lieutie! ;D
Still think you should be able to remove the formation guide if you wanted. It looks cool but you might want something more realistic or it might be in the way or whatever.
Formation guide says A should be top left, but I'm the rear team. ???
Duuuuude, that guy is definatley not gonna be in the 4th mission of this series. Don't you just love when your whole platoon fires a M16 bursts at the same time into the same guy? ;D
Use round numbers. 70, 90 meters are both hard to see. Use like 20, 50, 100, 150, etc.
The whole platoon stopped at EJ39. Couldn't do much more. Quit. :-\

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: SEAL84 on 23 Jan 2005, 22:18:48
Played a little while ago...

Had some enemy contact in the trees just off the LZ to the SW...a couple of guys were killed - none of mine though - and we moved along.

Surprised the hell out of the guys at the OP...Charlie squad rushed them head-on and lost 3 men but I ran up behind them and emptied my XM177 into them.  I heard Russian speech over a radio but whatever, the LT told me they didn't get a message off.  I shot the radio anyway.

Crawled into position near their line and told my men to target a bunch of enemies so that once the order was given we'd take them out immediately.  This worked reasonably well, but the enemy soldiers somehow kept spotting me through the fog from like 150m away and shooting me in the head.  Finally after like 6 retries we broke through the lines and got into their little compound.  I lost two-thirds of my squad to Russians none of us saw...inspecting the bodies revealed that a good number of them were just standing around, so when the shooting started, they proned out and stayed there.  VERY irritating.

So I clear the tower and head back down to the ground - two Urals full of Russians pull up and get blown away, but not before a couple of soldiers jump out and kill the LT.  Why didn't these trucks unload a safe distance away and have the soldiers advance on foot?

I also noticed that there are some Spetznaz just standing around, including a sniper.  Why aren't they out making themselves useful somewhere?

Anyhow, I take overall command, but Alpha squad keeps radioing to move to   wire, 9 o'clock, and doesn't move.  I shoot one of them but no dice - they're not going anywhere.  I quit.

I'll have to take it from the top later tonight as I have stuff to do for the next few hours.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 25 Jan 2005, 01:42:17
Thanks for playing guys :)

GI YO, I try to make it stop raining by the time that part of the intro rolls round. OFP doesn't have much in the way of 'portable rain covering'. I've overused the 'shed' object (camo netting) as it is :P
I'll just pretend they're of scottish descent, like me, and are hard men who don't feel the rain ;D
So the Lieutenant died after the assault? What did you think about the 'hand over' process? What I mean did you like having to run up to the soldier standing by the Lt's body, or would you have preferred it just to immediately put you in command?

Armsty, yeah... I'll definitely be doing some combat photograph to get a new OV pic once the mission comes out of beta.
About ejecting from the chopper... I thought I'd locked it so you couldn't? I'll check that to make sure I have...
Formation position, thanks for reminding me! I changed that to put the player in the action more. I'll update the picture.
The platoon stopping sounds like a nasty bug :(
So the Lt was still alive and not moving anywhere? I'd appreciate more details if you've got 'em.

SEAL ;D ;D How's it going mate?
The guys at the pass are supposed to engage the enemy actively, rather than just camping where they prone. I'll re-check my code...
Hmm... I'm a bit worried about this 'alpha move to wire' bit. Sounds like a looping move command I've got in there...

So what did people who saw it think of the command interface. It shouldn't get too much use in this mission, but I plan to rely on it pretty heavily in missions I've got coming up.
I tried to make it as intuitive as possible, but I'm not sure if I suceeded or not. Any opinions?
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: SEAL84 on 25 Jan 2005, 02:36:14
Indeed, I figured you'd used a looping move to keep the AIs in formation, but since I had been in that group before I took command, they felt it necessary to keep me appraised :P  

As far as the interface goes, it looked pretty good to me, but in the very brief time I fiddled with it I didn't see any "return to formation" command for the squads.  Was there one?  Since Alpha squad didn't want to follow me I didn't have the chance to test it out...I'll give it another try after I watch 24 ;D

Methinks I need to take a 203 with me next time, though.

BTW what happened to the project I lent my voice for?


****EDIT:  Second review below****

So I tried it again from the top, this time using Sanctuary's recently-released MARPAT config, which keeps all the BIS ballistics but swaps the models and sounds for those of the MARPAT addon.

This time I took my trusty M203 ;D

We came off the LZ with no contact and started moving towards the road.  Along the way we greased an AT team in some trees directly ahead of us and I saw two more infantrymen moving nearby - I dropped them and then got a message from the LT that a recon team was making a run for it and that we should intercept them.

This sounds exactly like what happened to that one platoon in We Were Soldiers - they went charging after a scout and got pinned.  Well, I chased anyway because it was over open ground...one of my guys called out "car, 2 o'clock, 200" but I didn't have a visual on either it or any scouts.  The objective was marked failed and back we went to the formation.  This time we did not hit the OP, but instead my squad led the way by flanking North of the Gap.

This position overlooking the Gap was much better than the one I had to the South the last time I tried, and even though I was supposed to be the maneuver element, I set my men in a line and picked targets for each of them for our opening volley.  When we were set I radioed in and the fun started - we dropped quite a few of them straight away with AR fire and grenades, but as my team advanced towards the road we lost 4 men.  We dispatched the two Urals and I cleared the tower.

The engineer worked his magic and we re-armed as the tanks chugged up to our position - LT Harris was alive and well, and it seemed that none of the other squads had taken enough casualties to merit reporting them.

The four tanks pulled up and inched up the road, and were fired upon by what sounded like BMPs - none of the tanks were destroyed and they killed the attackers quickly.  The infantry advanced slowly behind them and my team ran into what looked like a couple of Spetznaz stragglers in a stand of trees, then a full rifle squad - which killed another of my men just as we spotted them - off to our left, which I guess was SE of Arudy.  A T-72 wreck was just East of Arudy, and as we entered the town from the South we engaged one or two stray soldiers.  A few minutes later we declared the town secure and the outtro displaying our handiwork played.

No bugs to report this time, except that I think I killed the recon patrol I was supposed to chase.  LT Harris survived the mission and everything else ran smoothly.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: GI-YO on 25 Jan 2005, 12:16:19
Scotish aye, "aye I canne belive that captin" (like scottie from star trek). Maybe i'll let the rain issue slide then ;D I cant realy remeber what happened i seemed to just take control, but i was moving around alot and may have passed his corpes in the process. As for the command interface it looked real good, didnt realy get a chance to have a real play but i can see its potentential. Keep up the good work.

GI-YO
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: dmakatra on 25 Jan 2005, 16:01:37
About ejecting from the chopper... I thought I'd locked it so you couldn't? I'll check that to make sure I have...
Well I didn't actually tried, but I had the option both in my action menu and going through the action (6) radio commands.

The platoon stopping sounds like a nasty bug :(
So the Lt was still alive and not moving anywhere? I'd appreciate more details if you've got 'em.

Well, we went for DJ39, just west of this small bunch of trees. The platoon just halted. The lieutie was alive but it seems that you've dowatched him or something because when I moved he kept looking at me all the time. Creepy bastard... ;) Anyway, I tried to move around in the area if there were a trigger or a distance check I had to activate. Nothing. :(

:beat: *Gets Shot* :beat:
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: macguba on 25 Jan 2005, 17:03:25
Haven't read any of the above, just hoping I've got the right version.   (0.90)    



Overview

(Name the readme after the mission.)   The second paragraph on the first page is no good.    The idea of "first here's the basic idea, now here's some detail" is usually good but not for an Overview - it lacks punch.    The story so far reads like a military history written 20 years later, not a quick update to somebody actually there.    Add a date to your contact page.


Intro

Very good.    Few minor details.    Don't put the mission name in text at the start, it spoils the graphic later.    Just have "loading" or blank.    The first cut, from tank view to tank view, doesn't work because the first lot of tanks are appear to be going out of town and moving from right to left, and the second lot appear to be already in the town and also moving from right to left.   Try a different angle or an intervening shot of something else.    There isn't enough movement of loons in the town - for example, there is a medic just standing over two bodies.    He, and more of the others, should be doing something.

The first AT loon is not in any kind of cover:  place a bush beside him.     The tanks don't fire back at all - even in fog (which could perhaps be thicker) they'd have an idea of the direction of the rockets approach and might fire the odd round or some MG fire in the general direction.    Would look better too, they are too static after the first hit.      For the second hit, have the camera closer to the missile - you don't get the full benefit of the slow motion.

In the second part there was no bustling once the sergeant issued orders to gear up.   The guys should start moving at once.    Also the Chinook is turning and burning for an awfully long time, better to start him up halfway through.

But overall I wish all Intros were of this standard.   Especially mine.


Briefing

Plan - First para should be same size text as the others.   Not sure you need both second and third, consider combining into one.   At present the page says attack L'Espace Noir three times in four paragraphs, which seems excessive.

Notes - size thing again at the top.    Add "commander, 1 Platoon" so we know who Lt Morris is.      

partisan-like
comma after patrol

In Morris's notes have something like "As well as being in charge of supply you are second in command" to be consistent with the supply references in the Intro.

Gear - The grenadiers are both rookies, who should in fact probably be dispersed a little at the back of the squad.    It's a pleasure to see somebody get the handguns and bincocs right, so easy yet so rare.    I took a LAW and dished out a few bits and pieces.

Group - nice to see somebody actually thinking about skill levels.

Map - colour coding is not consistent.   I'd use green for friendly and blue for anything directly to do with 1 Platoon.  (Or the other way around.)   Maybe yellow for Buffalo if you like.

Overall its all good stuff except I don't really know how I fit it.    I seem to be commanding a rifle squad, which seems odd.   Surely I should be a member of the HQ squad, or commanding an element of it or something.    I'm assuming you have some medics kicking around somewhere since there are none in my squad.


Mission

The camera pans down and then moves up a little:  this is probably unavoidable as I know from experience that the chopper height will vary a little.    Think of something.   Also the timing is wrong:  the chopper should arrive sooner (to prevent boredom) or later (to increase drama).    Love the sleeping bit.    Try slower fades, and fading out while the fade in is only half complete.

Landed, followed the yellow dots.    Like the idea, but make the whole thing a bit more subtle and less obvious - this is not Cadet mode, at least not for me.   Maybe halve the number of little dots and make the cloud smaller.   They should last a little longer though.     Also mention in the hints that you can use command view to help keep position.

It appears that I am Alpha squad leader.   That's fine, but mention it in the Briefing.   Also that my squad will be on the left.

OH MY GOD!     LT. MORRIS HAS BEEN HIT!

Well I've got my new squad and I don't much care for it.    That Scott Akin is really annoying for a start.   ;D   Anyway, the M60 gunners should be my 2 and 3, or 3 and 4 if 2 is my runner.     The assistant AT should be carrying a second CG missile and if there are supposed to be M60 ammo bearers they should have M60 mags.   (If the game will allow that.)   There should be two medics since there are none in the squads, I know that's not particularly realistic but if you have only one medic you should have morphine scripts for everbody.

We rearmed slightly from the bodies (Dragunov for me) and moved forward a little.   My first impression of the command interface is that it is good.   It's pretty clear and so far I have only two suggestions:  make it more obvious that the whole platoon is selected;  and place the platoons a little further apart.  We are in Wedge and the last man of the lead platoon is only 30m away.   I almost catch him up when we move.    Just another 10 or 20m would seem better, but we'll see.      Ah, you click to deselect squads, not to select them, that is what is confusing me.   I would suggest a button for "whole platoon" which is selected at the start, in addition to buttons for each squad.

We headed west for a bit, then turned south to come at the enemy from the flank.   I spotted the tower but we kinda ran into it a bit because I couldn't figure out how to stop everybody.   The top left box of the dialogue needs a "whole platoon" box round it in the same way that the individual squads have boxes.  

Second time round it didn't go any better really.   We were further behind than I thought and consequently we were effectively flanked ourselves on making contact.  Charlie reported casualties and then getting hammered ... I brought Alpha up from the back to their position but before they even got there the C on the map was legging it southwards, I presume fleeing.     Ah, they have 8 KIA.     Now its all of them, like it.   ;D

Managed to get some kind of bounding overwatch going and the remaining squads moved in.     Alpha and Bravo have have 3 dead and one wounded between them.    

Cutscene.   No comment necessary.   :)

For the sake of tidyness I would recommend healing any wounded men in the platoon here.   I can make it happen by moving them in the right way, but it would be a real chore.  I only have 1 so it doesn't matter, but if I happened to have 4 or 5 ...

2 green ticks so far but no outstanding Objective at the moment.   Was having a little explore (the place looks great) when everybody started getting killed by a BMP so I hit the retry and got an error, something about

OfficerWHG counttype .... units _grp .... # == ... error zero division

That's it for now, more later.


Edit:  just skipped through the more recent comments.   No probs with anybody getting stuck.    The boss was killed in the first contact, a few hundred metres after we left the LZ.   I heard one Dragunov shot, my 2 called the sniper as I hit the dirt.  I didn't see anything but the squad on my right and the HQ squad were both popping away merrily as I headed to examine the boss's body.   (Which is correct btw.)    We appeared to have no other casualties which was surprising because there was a sniper with bizon, an AT4 loon, the sniper of course and I think one other.    I assumed at the time that the Lt getting it here was inevitable but apparently not.    

Later.


Picked it up at the retry.     The platoon was disorganised and there wasn't time to get everybody in shape before the armour arrived.    I pressed on anyway, passing through the roadblock just ahead of the first tank and walking straight into a couple of russkies.   We exchanged casualties.      I wanted platoon V, with Alpha and Bravo ahead of me on each flank.     Bravo was fine, ahead to my left (where I expected Alpha to be) but Alpha was to their left.   We were moving forward as I was figuring this out, staying close to the tanks.      Repeated attempts to get Alpha into some kind of logical place failed.   Eventually they kinda settled in behind me as if they were reserve squad.   I ordered them manually up front right:  there were four of them left now, Bravo was doing slightly better but calling casualties occasionally.    I had about 5 loons with me, two wounded, and the armour seemed to be doing ok.     Somebody took out the BMP.    We approached the village and I and most of my squad were killed:  the only mystery is that it hadn't happened sooner as I spent most of my time on the map and command interface.      

We need more time after the retry before the tanks arrive to get in shape.     You've taken away the normal opportunity to heal, rearm and reorganise with the cutscene, which is fine, but you have to leave us in good order positionally.

Retry.   Got that error message again with a hint "error in rearm".

I see we start in sort of line formation with me on the right.  A and B are charging forward without orders or reporting contact.   We advance again, all goes well on the combat front but the formation thing is a shambles.   A and B both move further and further left:  when I try to go with them they run back towards me.     Eventually I order platoon column and they get into the right sort of order, but there is something wrong with the V formation.   Possibly the complete absence of Charlie squad is confusing things.

Having established column I order V and A moves back behind me, with B out front left.   The map in the interface suggests A should be front left and B front right.   Anyway, at least I know where I am.    Since I'm buggered if I'm going in with only one squad up I order line, squads on line, and both squads head out to my left ... actually, its almost like what they were doing when they were mad, except now its a little wider out and more ordered.   Anyway, the tank dust has long since settled so we'd better go and collect the tankers dogtags from over the skyline.

Actually the tanks aren't that far ahead.   We move up, tanks doing the dirty work.   I pause to let A and B catch up, they seem to have fallen far behind.    While waiting, three US soldiers pass me on my right ... if they are in my platoon they are at least 70m from where they should be and 100m from where the map says they are ... anyway, they'll soon be dead either way.    Yep.   Fortunately one has an M203 which is more useful than my Dragunov.    A and B seem to have advanced past me and have taken a spanking from the infantry in the village, which you would expect given their beautiful reverse slope position.     My little gang is still intact, so we crawl forward cautiously.

Little bit of usual urban combat fun.... Is Arudy clear?   Presumably not.   ;D   Damn.  Nope.   Try again.  Bingo.  Fade to black, mission accomplished.

3 green ticks
1h 3m
-800 *
2 kills


Comment

There's buckets of quality here, as ever.    It's not just the cutscenes, though everybody talks about those, it's the base layouts and force balances and dialogue and things like that, that make the difference between good missions and average ones.

As a command interface training exercise for both player and mission designer it works very well.     However, if you want to regard it as a stand alone mission, then I'd say take out the whole command interface platoon thing, thin out the opposition slightly here and there, give me a decent squad and let me get on with it.

The platoon thing is something which has always greatly interested me too, and in fact two of my three real missions are largely explorations of this whole idea.   (Lookout!, complete and in the missions depot, and Regina Proeliorum, beta tested on this forum a long time ago.)     There are always two core issues:   the physical control of the squads, and the value of those squads.

Physical control is the easy one, so it goes first.    The interface here is pretty good and functionally it works pretty well.   I've mentioned a couple of things already and there are a few other possible improvements - reporting number of loons alive rather than dead; listing callsigns somewhere; listing weapon loadouts dynamically so you know if a squad has any LAWs left or whatever; making radio (colour) callsigns easier to comprehend (maybe calling the squads blue, red, yellow rather than alpha bravo charlie) - but frankly its all pretty minor stuff.   The physical movement of the squads wasn't bad apart from that one terrible incident after the retry when it was a shambles.  

The hard one is the value of those squads.    The problem is that it isn't much.   An AI squad is a pretty weak force, we've all taken out a whole one on our own many times.      Giving the player a couple of AI squads doesn't actually strengthen his hand very much.    You drop a couple more squads on the enemy side to balance it and what have you got - a total of four squads that wipe each other out.    The problem is exacerbated by the fact that the player and his squads are normally moving and attacking, which is a huge disadvantage in this game.    In other words, you don't add two more squads to the enemy, you add one or less to keep the balance right.    (For example I approached the final objective with A and B at almost full strength.    To be true I didn't pay much attention to them but they were both wiped out by about three enemy loons just popping them as they came over the skyline.)   If this whole thing only results in the enemy being marginally stronger, why bother?   Why not just do that anyway and give the player a stronger squad or a better weapon?   That's the problem.

In order to make the interface manageable the amount of information that can be communicated between player and controlled squads is quite small.   This means that the player doesn't really have tactical* control of the squad.  (They are happy to run over the hill and get shot, for instance.)   Therefore, the best you can hope for is to give the player strategic* control of the squad.    Therefore, to make a truly satisfactory mission of this sort, it must be possible to give a squad a simple, discrete mission which it can carry out with a fair chance of success.    

Because the player is so much stronger than AI loons, this discrete (I hesitate to say detached) mission must take occur in a place where the player cannot excercise a direct influence.    

An example.     The player's platoon is ordered to attack a fixed position from a certain direction at a certain time.    He has no weapons with optics.    The attack axis is overlooked by a known enemy OP with snipers.    A direct attack will result in most of the platoon, and probably the player, being taken out before the attack really gets started.    Solution:   send one squad to flank and destroy the OP, while the main body conducts the attack.   Perhaps, depending on the ground, it may also be helpful to send one squad to act as fire support for the attack.

In any event, lots of time is required to allow the player to make his dispositions and correct the cockups which are bound to occur given the nature of the game engine.     Coordination with other groups is very difficult and I was very impressed in this mission with how the armour moved forward at the end.   They kept nudging forward, but kept in touch with us too.   No idea how you did that, it was either brilliant scripting or luck.

I have neither the desire nor ability to create a command interface and in my missions I have approached the problem in a different way.   In Lookout! the other squads were not really under your command:  they followed a known pre-defined path and all you could do was control their progress to some extent.  The mission was designed so that they would both take very heavy casualties whatever you did.    In Regina Proeliorum you have more control over timing, and if you get it wrong you find it extremely hard to win the mission.   It's not really a puzzle because the correct timings (and order) are fairly obvious.   Later in the mission you control your own support platoon, but that's about it.  

In other words, I believe that using any command system to direct a conventional platoon attack is unlikely to produce a really satisfactory mission.   This is a constraint of the game engine and not a reflection on the mission designer.    The trouble of controlling the squads is always going to outweigh the benefit of having them, given that the player is so much stronger than AI.  That's not to say that it shouldn't be attempted - on the contrary.   However, to keep it fun for the player, the mission ground and objectives must be considered even more carefully than for an ordinary mission.   Moreover, the mission designer should think of the squads more as strategic assets than tactical ones.    

Well that's enough wittering from me for now.    I'd be interested in your response though, we don't spend enough time talking about stuff like this.    And it's always a pleasure to play your missions Sui, the standard of workmanship is so high.  :thumbsup:  



* Tactics - how you conduct a particular engagement
   Strategy - how you link engagements

Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 26 Jan 2005, 06:31:47
Thanks Seal... good details :)

The other project is still in the pipeline... it's a mission much more complicated that this one and comes about 3 missions after this one in my 'sequence' I've got mapped out in my head. I'm still working on it, and if I can get it working how I want it it should be my best mission yet :)

The objective with the recon patrol... I might revisit that and make it a bit easier (or at least more reliable). They run away and jump in a UAZ, and if the UAZ drives through the pass the objective is failed. I might make them run a little slower or something.

Armsty, I think it's a bug with the Lieutenant randomly moving west, but not far enough west to activate the next part of the mission. I'll revise where I tell him to move to, and make sure that can't happen anymore. Thanks for spotting that for me :)

Macca... you wee beauty :)
I live for that kind of feedback... I'm writing it all down as I type... well, ok. Not quite at the same time as I type, but you get my drift.

Most of the issues with the 'platoon Vee' formation are due to me putting the wrong bloody picture in the interface ::) :P
Bravo squad should be top left, charlie top right and alpha behind. That's on my list of things that need fixing.

The errors in the rearm script are new... I'll have to re-examine my code as I've obviously b0rked something up.

Right, onto the meat of the discussion... platoon level combat in OFP ;D
I'm going to start a new post because I think it warrants it..
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 26 Jan 2005, 07:00:26
Quick note for anyone thinking of beta testing this and feeling intimidated by us old timers talking 'military realism' or other shop talk... please don't feel you have nothing to offer me in the way of feedback.

I eagerly accept all comments, no matter how small :)
I'd love to hear your opinions if you'd be good enough to offer them to me.


Right, macca...
I've been developing (read: using) this platoon interface for more than a year now. I can confirm that it does get much easier to use as you get used to it.

Remember way back when you first played CWC and got a squad to command... taking 10 minutes to issue an order? Fast forward to now when you issue 3 consecutive orders in as many seconds using ~ and a few number keys.

My interface isn't that fast, but my point is it does get easier.

This mission is supposed to be part of a series, this being the first where you have any chance at all of command the platoon. I'm a bit worried that it's a little too much of a 'trial by fire', and that the player will have difficulty coming to grips with the interface before the platoon gets decimated :(
I try to keep the LT out of the firefight as much as possible (apart from the 'LT assassination sniper team' I have randomly placed at the start), but shit happens in combat ;D

I think OFP is the best platform for infantry simulation at this level on the market right now (VBS1 being the obvious exception of course), and if I can get around the AI limitations then I reckon I'll have a winner...

I completely agree with you about AI limitations, and the value of the squads under your command.
I tried to increase their value with the 'contact' script, as not only do the AI call targets, but the targets called are revealed to the other squads in the platoon. This means that squad on overwatch will engage targets other squads meet.

You're right about the discrete role the AI will play, and due to it's limitations it can't really act as an independant squad, more an extensions of the players. Unfortunately you can't give complex orders like "Go here, flank the enemy and cover our 3 o'clock". It's more like "Move here, stop."
With practice you come to appreciate what the other squads can and can't do, and use them as an extension of the platoon and not expect too much from them.

Because I'm trying to make the interface work in a number of different situations (it will feature in the sequels to this... I plan to make a few, time permitting :)), I tried to keep it generic and non scripted.

The tank advance was intentional, and had me tearing my hair out before I got it working (would you believe I had to use tank setfuel 0 to get the sods to behave ;D). However it was doable simply because its a linear scripted action. I've done the 'limited command' with AI squads sort of thing in the past (My first released mission, Wrestling with the Bear) and I was looking for a bit more this time round.

Whether or not it's accepted remains to be seen, but I like it :)

I think it can be used tactically, but simply relies on the player knowing the limitations of the squads. I often put them in formation and make sure the HQ squad is the one mostly in contact. From there I can order the outside squads to move to flanking positions, or stay put on overwatch while my squad manouvres. I have to say it does take practice.
I've made it so you can keep one (or two) squads in formation with you and use the other(s) to overwatch, or flank (well... move :P)... it works, but takes a time to learn.

I've got another mission in development where the platoon moves over a much vaster area (and isn't as limited by terrain), and the platoon formations really shine there. I've engaged similar sized OpFor with excellent results, both from ambush and assault sort of perspectives.

Anyway, I've tried to make it intuiative as possible, and put in features that will get use. I've taken your suggestions on board, and any more you have would be greatly appreciated :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: macguba on 26 Jan 2005, 12:28:01
Yeah, I sometimes feel a bit guilty about these long posts in case it puts people off.      But if you write a beta review that makes only one point, then that's still helpful to the mission designer.   I know, because somebody I've never seen post before or since has made one really good comment which has led to a significant improvement to themission ..... more than once.

Anyway I have no doubt you're right, this would become much easier to use once you get used to it.   It is a thousand times better than the horrendous hierarchy of radio (or action) menus that you sometimes see.     As I say, I think the remaining improvements that could be made to the interface are mostly pretty minor.

I bitterly remember using the CWC command interface for the first time.    You remember you have to defend that village from attack?    Well, I got sent to Col Blake and kicked out the army every time.     I was stuck there for days and days, I've never been faster on the menus than I was then.   Finally I manged to repel the attack with no casualties to my group and virtually no casualties to the other US troops.    It was a virtuoso ballet of commands, movement and firing laws.   And Col Blake kicked me out the army.     Only then did I realise that I would have to go back a couple of missions and collect gold stars rather than red crosses.......

One of the things I thought of but forgot to mention last night was the stuff like reveal.    Taking some good ideas from the "enhanced AI scripts" out there is probably a sound idea - the more sophisticated you can make the AI in your platoon the more fun it is going to be to play with them.     You can easily use the same stuff on the other side if you want to make it "fair".    The more communciation that can be done silently by the mission designer, the better.  It was clear you had done something along these lines but I wasn't sure what.  

The calling of contacts by the squads worked very well.   The calling of casualties was not quite so good ... certainly for a first time use it was a bit vague.    I found myself frequently wondering just how many loons they had left.    I like that you can only issue one command at a time, but would suggest a button for "all squads, report status".    Otherwise getting everybody to report - for example during a lull in the fighting when you're not sure if the contact is over or not - is hard work.     Yes I know you don't want to overburden the interface with buttons .... but it's so good and so simple to use that I think you can probably have more buttons than you might expect.   There's no question that you can have more than are currently available.

I suggest you write a "users guide to the workings of the command interface" so that players like me can have some idea of what's going on.

As a training exercise for the CI I think this mission worked very well, particularly the way it panned out for me.   With the Lt gone early, I had plenty of space and time to get used to the basic idea.     If I hadn't been lost by 100m (which was just me rushing rather than taking my time to do it right) we would have destroyed the main garrison with few casualties.     The final Objective is easy, given the tanks you could virtually do it alone.   However it teaches you to look after your boys.  So overall I'd say the difficulty level is about right.    If you were experienced with the CI it would be too easy.

Are the infinite savegames just for beta or are they real?  I used one on taking command, one halfway between there and the main attack, and one just before going over the top at Arudy.

Oh yes, something else you have probably already considered.   It would be nice to be able to control the direction in which a squad is facing.   Tricky I know, and possibly not worth it.

Another tiny detail:  when I was ordering a squad to move a small distance, say 50-100m, I found the movement of the map irritating.    I can see how it would be useful for larger movements.    If you can be bothered, consider scripting it differently depending on the distance.    

I'm very impressed by your control of the tanks.   It worked extremely well.  8)

OFP is the best game AFAIK.    And I think you do have a winner - certainly I've never used a CI that was both this sophisticated and this easy.    My point is that to make it feel like a winner it has to be used in the right kind of missions.

Sorry, this post is probably a little bitty, since its a mixture of response to yours and things I've just thought of.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: macguba on 26 Jan 2005, 13:15:56
A new post for my second attempt at the mission, from the top.

After debussing we went on a much more southerly track than the first time.   Variety of minor contacts that were nothing much to do with me, then orders to encircle the OP.     First time I followed my orders and got a "we're ready to go message" but then got myself killed through sheer bad play.    Second time it all got fucked up:  I advanced a little from my ordered position, but only 20m across the road to get my loons facing the right way and they were on hold fire.  Anyway, an enemy loon wandered out the of the back of the OP.    He was probably about to see us - my loons had been standing up and milling around - so I shot him.    His mate came out to investigate so I shot him too.    Charlie are mincing around away to the north somewhere.     I suggest a trigger so that if contact occurs early, the boss shouts something down the radio.    

Moving in ... ah "I think they spotted us".   I run in, shooting one loon near the entrance and another inside the fortress.    Like the Russian radio sounds.   But too late, red cross on the Objective.    We get back into formation, but two of my loons are stuck in the OP.   I go back and get them out successfully, the Platoon waits for us and there is a retry.    

The yellow dots are a bit idiosyncratic.   Sometimes they appear on the map but not the ground, and I've just had one appear before me for just one flash.    Maybe the others did appear on the ground, but not long enough for me to see them.    In general they should persist a little longer, or until you are a little closer to the big yellow.

Ordered to move up for recce.     The ground is as bare as Kojak's bonce but the yellow balls lead us further in.   We are on hold fire and crawling with pauses but eventually we are spotted.   "attack now"   I drop several, as do my loons, but some bastard gets me from behind the field hospital ... 226m is his next target, presumably my number 2.

Try again.   This time I ignore the yellow balls of death and come in from a more sensible angle, a little further south.   Ah, this is much more like it, from much further away we get the "I see them .... want you to be base of fire"  sequence.    Retry.    I move forward 5 yards, peer round a rock and there's a whole fucking squad not 50m away, facing my direction.   I manage to give the go order and drop 4 of them before being killed.

Next time I peered very cautiously round the other side of the rock and the enemy went on alert.   It was almost as if it was scripted because they didn't see me, though they may have seen one of my loons.     Go go go.    I and my boys dropped a couple then Bravo came through us like suicide cavalry.    Charlie are charging off up the hill somewhere.   We get orders to move forward and do so, taking and giving casualties.   Suddenly I'm in command and the whole of HQ squad is down.

I order everybody to hold position and take cover while I take stock.  I'm wounded, Bravo is gone and A and C have just one or two loons each.    I seem still to be on A's radio net - I'm hearing "9, target soldier".     We keep still.   A Ural comes in and drops off spetz natz.    There is the odd shot.   I drop a couple of loons.   Somebody throws three grenades at me which fall short: I fire a whole magazine through the smoke, knowing he can still see me.

At this point there are only 3 or 4 of us left from the whole platoon.     There should be some kind of system of consolidation into one squad.    We're Airborne, and anyway we can't retreat back up an open slope - there's no option but to go on.

I'm killed but pick up an infinite retry.   Charlie has flown - 8 KIA and he is 550m away.    Something should happen when the squad flee - he is just responding like nothing has happened.    Maybe let him flee, or have a "rally" button.

I crawl forward, dropping the odd loon, and swap my last few rounds of M16 for a 6G30.   9 (of A) calls a report and I pump all 12 rounds in the general area.    Swap that for an AK74SU and crawl to the road.   Four loons run out of the bushes on the other side.  I shoot three then the dreaded click of an empty mag.    As I scrabble for the R key the fourth loon turns and runs away.    I shoot two more then the position is announced clear.    B is dead, A has one man left, I am alone and badly wounded and the last remaining loon of C has made it safely back the LZ on his own.

And we don't get the chance to go on.  Shame, I was looking forward to it.

1 red tick
2 green ticks
47m
6720 *
25 kills


Well you certainly get ten out of ten for replay value - this was a different mission.    Excellent, well done.

What would have happened to Charlie had the mission continued?   Say if A and B were still at good strength but C had fled as he did?

Now, in the immortal words of Richie Benaud "And that's lunch."
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 29 Jan 2005, 00:29:41
Thanks for playing again mate :)

Plenty of changes to make... all good.

I think I'll need to let the player know when one of their squads is running...
When ordered to do something they still acknowledge the command as if they're going to do it.

It wouldn't be hard to make changes like you've suggested to the interface... when I wrote it I tried to keep it very simple, and put in only the basic command I thought would be needed. I'd be very keen to hear what else everyone would like the platoon to be able to do.

Anyway, plenty of changes to come by the looks of it :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 02 Feb 2005, 09:55:48
Right... just got delivered another batch of voice files, so I'm well on my way to having the next version ready for testing... :)

Since I'm going to be recoding a bit anyway, I was looking to get some input into the command interface.

In an ideal world, (ie. not worrying about OFP practicalities), what would you like to be able to tell your platoon do to?

I'm thinking about putting an 'establish base of fire' command into the interface, and a couple of other ideas. Any more couldn't go astray, and I'd appreciate the input.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: SEAL84 on 02 Feb 2005, 16:41:55
Right... just got delivered another batch of voice files, so I'm well on my way to having the next version ready for testing... :)

Almost done with mine...lots of other work to be done, but I'll send them over soon.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Gooner861 on 02 Feb 2005, 22:14:28
Had to check this mission out. All stuff to learn from your missions.


Overview

- Good as ever, i cant pick out any errors here.
- How do you do those linking buttons? There really good.


Intro

- Now i think it was my comp but this was really stuttery and jerking all over the place but was still very well made. Nice angles and it all works well.
- Nice!! Like the slow mo RPG's, very nice. At first again dunno if it was just me but the camera seemed to be so close to the AT guy it looked rather odd for a few seconds.
- Very nicely shown, wen RPG hits tank.
- Dialogue works well again, adds to the scene and atmosphere.
- Nice opening and then we get back to the good old air base with its great set up.

- Reading the dialogue, nice...... you WOT!!...... Sgt Gooner!!!!!! ..... great name  ;D but im afraid your gonna have to pay me for the use of the name  ;D .

- Fine intro, building up the mission. One thing how do you do that map thing, thats really cool.

Mission
Firstly i didnt finish the mission, i just had a quick go. I'll finish it wen i get more time. So sorry if its a little short.

Well can i say you've dun very well to build an atmosphere in this mission. You do get a very strange feeling when playing it. It feels real and your always alert to everything. The fog i guess adds to this, having to constantly scan the horizon makes every step more tense not knowing whats there.

Like the chopper ride, i thought at first there was summin wrong, everything kept blacking out. But lol it was really cool, falling asleep on the helicopter. Again the dialogue keeps you interested and never seems to drag on.

Ok so i land and i see summin new, the yellow dots and yellow blob thingy which help you get into formation. Very good, well thats what i thought at first  :-\ . Well so i'm told to go here then there, i stand around for abit, the other AI groups move here and there. I wonder if nething will happen but eventually were told to move on. The yellow dot thing was startin to get annoying, i know its there to keep the platoon in formation but i cnt be bothered to keep having to go back, i wanna move on and get to the objective.

After a while we meet some contact, couple of guys on patrol easily taken out by the AI dudes. I decide to forget the yellow markers and just go on myself but i dnt run off on my own, i stay with the rest of the platoon. Finally we meet our first objective, an enemy OP. This is where the yellow dot thing is useful, means i dnt have to keep flicking between the game and the map.

So i encircle the OP and get into position. Couple of greandes does the job, not a shot fired  ;D . I like the nice touch in the OP, with the radio. Nice touches like that make these kind of missions special.

K so now we move onto the real target. Nice radio messages tell me to flank the enemy postion. So i move out to make sure we dont meet any enemy patrols. After another long run to position im told to go towards the big clump of tress. Where? maybe you cud use the yellow dots here to clarify where to go.

Anyway the rest of the platoon moves to position. Were spotted, bullets start flying. I take my squad down the hill, i cant see shit. In the distance i see a little camp or is that part of the main enemy encampment. Well i see some trucks and tents, i get my LAW out, bullets still flying. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMM!!! Massive explosion as i take out the fuel truck, must of taken sum enemy troops out there.

I move forward slowly, shit my men are getting slaughtered. I take out a spetznaz and a soldier. I try and desperately get to some cover but sadly im spotted and killed. Damn.

Well sorry i stopped here as i had other things to do. But so far i hope this helps, i'll be back to finish it ( if i can  ;D ). Looking very good, as ever Sui.

To be continued.............


Gooner
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 08 Feb 2005, 08:43:46
No hurry on the voices, Seal mate :)

It's going to be a while before the largest part comes in...

Thanks for playing Gooner.

The linking buttons are simply html links. It's exactly the same as making a text link, except you throw an image in instead ;)
The map thing's done with mapanim commands... check out the comref to see how. They work just like camera scripting commands.

Sounds like you had a pretty good run at the mission... glad you liked the fuel truck ;D

I'm not too far off releasing an updated version. I'm just playing with my interface and adding a couple of features...
More mission testing is always welcome if anyone can find the time :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: macguba on 08 Feb 2005, 17:45:07
I thought of something to add to the interface, in addition to my comments above.   A big red button saying

Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 08 Feb 2005, 18:10:42
hey what can i say apart from great mission

into
good intro i like the bit wher it shows the russian at soldier but if you could show down his sights when he fires would make it look abit better. some conversation i cant read mabye cause im a slow reader but you could add an extra second of reading time aapart from that it was great.

overview.
good overview the pic was alright.

breifing.
i didnt like this breifing there were to many sections on the plan page i dont mind when it all seperate but oh well. gear selection was good lots of weapons and stuff.

mission
now the begining when youre running throught the valley i found alitlle dull but good use of waypoints but i prefer the original. if you added another recon patrol to make a bit more firing. i didnt like being in charge of the plaoon at all i dont even like taking command of squads but great idea. right when i got to the something majig passage forgot what its called, i didnt like this bit it didnt feel like you were in a battle but it was still pretty good i liked when the truck came with reinforcements i was at the top of the castle wich i liked. then that cutscene great cutscene but it showed some men die of mine so i was anoyyed. but going up to aruy was good i ran into the bmp before the tanks did and i had only one law luckily i took care of it waited for the tanks to come then the battle started lots of bangs and shootings here it was great possibly the best part in the mission. i saw the oficer surrendering i ewent up to him and saw the search menu i decide neh so i shot him then another soldier came in fired a shot at me whilst i was reloading. then he stood there i shot him before he thought of shooting me then then mission complete i was like yay.

outro.
good outro nice and simple.

overall
great 9/10 if not a 10/10 lots of action new ideas like the platoon thing.good cutscenes and good conversation a superb mission.

keep up the good work
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 14 Feb 2005, 09:34:30
I thought of something to add to the interface, in addition to my comments above.   A big red button saying

  • Win mission
Hehe... I used something like that in early beta testing ;D
Maybe I should put it back, huh?

Thanks for playing, 456820.

The speed of the text still has to be finalized, as I'll get the timing right once the voice files come in :)

When you say there were too many sections on the plan page, you mean the notes page? You think it could be organised a little better?

LOL... sounds like someone finally found the officer easter egg in Arudy... so you shot him huh?... nasty ;D
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 11 Mar 2005, 23:25:34
*bump*

Maybe someone would like to party with this...

I'll try to get on and put some testing in to others missions once I get home from work... ;)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Mikero on 16 Mar 2005, 13:59:00
well! I think anyone playing this would understand why the AvonLady website rates you among the master mission makers. I would say master craftsmen.

This mission was not for me. I find it too difficult too confusing to control large bodies of troops. I dont enjoy being led by the nose either.

Be that as it may this mission has faultless cutscenes, intro, excellent dialog, perfect use of limited music. And what attention to detail you use. Small things like green flares while landing.

For some odd reason I found the scenery beautiful, no other word for it, the chopper ride, the rain,,,

Your use of cutscenes to tell a story is the best out there, superb use of map dialog, who NEEDS a briefing <grin>

I've obviously played a fixed up version vs previous comments of others. I lost all my squad, all others went kia too, but I got through it. Think I would have done far better with my own devious methods than following your 'plan'

Yes, ok, I like the technique, the yellow nose pull, but no, this mission style is not for me. It will be for many, and what a superb craftsman you are.

Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 17 Mar 2005, 08:55:34
Thanks for playing, mikero....

Thanks also for the ego boost, though I don't think I'm all that! ;D

The mission premise I used here is a bit wishy washy I've found... the mission can play so differently depending on what happens (ie. if your LT dies or not).

I guess it really is a bit of a niche thing, and won't appeal to those that aren't into leadership of units larger than a squad....
This mission doesn't stand alone all that well. If included in the 'sequence' of missions I plan to make (most of which exist only in my head a the moment) it'll be a good lead in to platoon level command, but as it is the player can find it hard to come to grips with.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and the kind words. They are very much appreciated :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 30 Jul 2005, 10:02:34
well sure this thread died away but im here to revive it mostly because its one of the best missions ive played definatley up in the top 3
anyway a review
ECP 1.085 in Vet mode

ive also played this mission in cadet mode and its alot lot harder in Vet mode anyway

Overview

Has the same picture as facile ground doesnt it ?
nice pic though, fine text nice idea with the links on the overview to other pages
good overview basically

Intro

Nice intro but ive noticed a few very ugly shots but first of all shows me Dourdan i think
the medic apears hes about to shoot the dead bodys how about have him in a kneel stance with no weapon ?

then the tanks move out titletext from buffalo but no reply's from command
they advance down the valley until they get attacked here comes the ugly shots
first is when it shows the tanks moving and the camera rises just before it has the camera on the ground where the tanks go over the top of it
the thing with the shot is that its really shky like theres an ofp earthquake

same when it shows the first At soldier fire how about looking down his optics ?
the next is when it shows the second at soldier fire nice shot with the back blast or was that ECP anyway then it also takes too long for the tanks to respond they pretend nothing has happened for a while then they turn in

also when one of them says ' i cant even see past the end of my gun' or something like that it should be 'turret'

then after that shows the airport part all nice and well apart from bits like the text
using the word 'gun' makes them sound un prefessional should be 'rifle' but thats just my thought after that nice and well.

Briefing

Good here even though i dont read the extra pages i read the objectives have alook at the ground and off i go
weapon selectio nice choice i chose the M16/M203 with 3 grenades and i also had the law launcher on my back without ammo (i dunno why)

Mission

Ahh one of my fav missions of all times i can clearly say
so we star tin the chopper still got the sleeping in helicopters from airbourne lol
anyway nice bit of talking helped past the time
then we disembark nice use of the smoke
im told to go to the south west so i do have a quick look throgh my binocs
then i return into a platoon Vee but on the map it doesnt look like any sort of Vee more like a staggered line ?

anyway we stroll along encounter a smal patrol or so i dont like that because im at the back of the platoon so once i get to the front the shootings over.
anyway then we encounter the enemy OP and were told to take it down so we do but
we get spotted even though it wasnt my squad but the side text said it was
it was the other squads taking care of the patrols but no worry i suppose were told to take it down so i run in there launce a grenade and clear 2 men down one man standing inside i shot him OP secure
nice touch with the radio sounds on the russian radio
then were told its too late and to return to formation
we also get called a sniper but we got 2 text messages abot that one wich says SNIPER!! and one wich is like Contact enemy sniper 200 at west or something nice though

once im back into formation im told that i was too late on clearing the enmy OP and to fall into formation i already got the exact same message when i cleared the OP then i think a sniper shot the Lt so i ran over to him and im in control Yippie last review i didnt like this but now i do since i can do my own tactics in a nice and easy to understand control panel unlike COC's i found that to hard to understand this is simple

anyway everyone into formation
i got the same message like
2 follow 2
2 goto 22 56

eg and that lasted for a while and really pissed me off

anyway now with the tactics
i opened the map closed the plan board so i get a bigger view
right alpha squad moves in from the south
bravo attack from the NE
my squad attack from the SE
and charlie attakcs from the NW
everyone gets into position
i order combat mode and hold fire
i inch them closer and closer to the lines then bang to my right bravo was getting attacked by a heavy grenadier they lose half there men
everyone open fire and i order them to move in
everything goes nice andw ell except ther are some large gaps in my defence where enemy's just flank us and appear from behine us enemy spetz natz are advancing right at use literally 10 metres infront of me
this i like so much bang bang tracers everywhere explosions you have suc good atmosphere on this mission the best fire fight ive eve had in a mission no doubt

how many more people are there i keep shotting i run out of my M16 and grenades so i pick up a russian Ak start shooting more rounds got pinned down by an At soldier
nice though he was just peeking out side of the fence very nice if that was intentional
i keep dying around this point by either spetz natz, At soldiers or a grenadier
very hard i think but the atmosphere keeps me coming back for more  ;D
lots of action downt seem to stop once the fighting slows down i order alpha to cross over to charlies position
and charlie eh oh there KIA and bravo to cross over to alpha and i will clear the middle very nice this part i usually hate hunting for the last loon but with all the andrenaline from the firfight it makes this bit great

oh yh ive already mentiones the issue about number 2 trying to lead my squad i also get radio chatter from my old squad ? (not the ECP ai chatter plug in thing)

after a while the area is secure i run behind the tree line and sit back in my chair and feel very tired that fire fight is as real as you get i was actually using up anderealine on it i think very very very good

so the engineer comes blows the wire fence nice title text
and nice use of the satchel charges being placed but he puts tem in the same place wich is a shame he should move around it and put them down
this time none of my men are cuaght in the back blast

well now ive only got alpha, bravo and my squad left so i order them to stay alert and hold fire and move them in positions around arudy and wait for the tanks
they come rolling thourgh aha comence assault all open fire bang bang bang
the tanks help alot in clearing arudy but i cant help to feel there werent enough men in it shame
add a small counter attack with infantry maybe ?
we clear the town and see the officer surrendering how about some speech from him eg the sounds in triggers
i shoot him but only injure him (he takes a shot in the head) i didnt relise it was my last round
so he pulled out a pistol and shot me DAMN restart so i go up to him reload swithc to full auto cause its an Ak and kill him some gut pops around the corner fast reactions from me makes sure hes dead on the floor
area clear and mission complete

that little camera at the end is a shame becuase near the end of the camera shots we were getting shot at again and i wanted to help but couldnt ?

Overall

WOW what can i say great great great mission  ;D
i want to play it again
theres nothing outstandingly buggy apart from the radio chatter from my old squad
the things mention in the intro and what i IM you about
great mission
a score this is hard if the bugs are fixed and maybe a small counter attack on Arudy then you might be looking at just scrapping a level 10/10 but at the moment a high 9/10
Good work and cant wait to see the finished result
keep up the excellent work

and thats the review
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 31 Jul 2005, 04:30:43
Cool :)

Thanks for testing with ECP mate. I'm very keen to know how this mission runs using the new version.
Thanks for the clear blow by blow... I've made a few changes that should hopefully sort out that radio issue, and made the last objective a bit harder. I'll see what else i can fix up based on this review.

An updated version of this mission isn't too far away, just writing the outro now. The voice files are also coming in nicely, with the main parts all done :)

Shouldn't be too far off release hopefully...
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 31 Jul 2005, 10:39:00
yippie cant wait for the final release
ill have another go with ECP 1.085 on this a bit later on also if the l'espace noir i think it is also isnt that (black space or something like that) anyway if thats meant to be such a defended fortification i was suprised to see no armour eg a Bmp would be quite nice or some armour from Arudy comes down to have a look whats happening but since we dont have allied armour suppport nothing too hard no T80's for example

anywaycant wait for the final release its sounding very good
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 31 Jul 2005, 20:46:50
why not another review with ECP 1.085
okay this cant be as detailed as the last but ill give it anohter test

Review with Vet mode, ECP 1.085 no super ai

Overview

Same as before

Intro

good apart from what ive mentioned about those weird shots and buffalo taking too long to respond to the AT hit
also that guy whos meant to be sitting on the ammo crate is too far forward bring him back slighlty hes just hoverin gin air now

Breifing

fine same as before

Mission

so we start of in chopper get to the drop point get out i go to south west corner then i fall into formation but this time we form up into a line squads in colum isnt that basically all squads in stag colum

anyway we move out

and i have to go so ill continue this tommorow
also how do you do that radio sound on each sidechat like a radio ? i havent nticed it on plain sidechat commands so is that using play sound or osmething ?

anyway good work
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Uber-Pea on 04 Aug 2005, 16:32:25
So there you go, just finished it.
OfP 1.96 ECP 1.085 bench 4900
P4 2,54 MhZ 700 MB DDR RAM Gforce 4 Ti 4800 Se.
Guess thats friggin enuff!

1. Obj:
Intercept something
FAILED

2. Obj:
 Attack Lespace Noir
ACCOMPLISHED

3. Obj:
Support 5th Armoured on Arudy
ACCOMPLISHED

4. Obj:
Take Command of the platoon
ACCOMPLISHED


What a piece of work! Here we go:
Everything went kinda fine until shortly after lespace noir was taken. (except Morris had some run-in-circle waypoint issues.)

Ok, attacked lespace noir. went kinda fine, good losses/kills relation to my squad.
Then that jokin piece 'o shit of a combat engineer arrived and blew up my "8".
Well, no can do. Morris tells me to engage, support 5th on arudy whatever.
K lets go. Engaged Arudy, squad was completely shot down, but i had no probs defeating any enemy presence with ma captured SVD which is very mighty imo.

got to the russian radio. since my soldier isnt capable of understanding russian he grunted and shot the radio. then got to the graveyard. Umm, a surrendering russian officer. No possibility to interact, no reaction, so i thought a trigger might have not gone off. Searching the area, finding 2  remainin spetznatz ill take out with ma SVD (runnin hard on 2 SVD mags as i took 4 RPGs with me...proving useless since needless...)
So, area around arudy cleared, nothing happens. except me nothing was going on for a while, no radio etc. so i think Sui would have been so unprofessional to use an east not present trigger for arudy. that surrendering officer is an east unit which is in the area...you guess what i did...deleted him with my scorpion.
At least, a reaction in this lifeless world (No critics, this is meant to be constructive). I say that he was surrendering and my squad should watch its fire. typical, no responsivity of those darn officers. shooting down surrenderers and tell the squad it should be more careful tsss...
So I missed what could have happened to that surrenderer. maybe a cutscene? hu cares. no further reaction though.
And still this yellow thingy tellin me where to go points back to lespace. Important, several times during the mission the formation marker told me to go back, though i was already past it. this IS annoying, as it also doesnt "tick off" when you touch it. the problem is u dont know what the thing wants you to do. tells you to go somewhere but without point. nothing happens if you do so, like it did in the beginning of the mission.
So I got bored of not working triggers, saved in front of morris, n gave im a headshot. uha, new possibilities i might have missed. i got to command the platoon by this nice tool. told charly, only remaining squad on 3 men or so, to go to arudy by waypoint-setting via map-clicking. arudy was of course already cleared by me (alone) at this point. So I boarded the uaz and followed charly. and uha, the tanks in front of arudy moved in also, with some radio msg's, too!
There were already badly damaged tanks of the US in Arudy, so I didnt bother before why there are none. Actually, the 5th armored wich are expected to take arudy, didnt. they only did after being passed by charly. then some communication went off like u sure its secure? gimme a second.....blahlbah mission completed and so on.
Very nice debriefing.

All in all, a great mission again. It seemed a bit to be a modified Facile Ground, as of similar scripts, the airport base... (which i liked more in FG ^^). This "similarity" was great, also using the same characters, the player's one now evolved, and morris doesnt hate him too much cuz hes airborne anymore because he proved himself in Larche... Very nice continuing feeling. If you did more missions like that you could put together a great Campaign, setting how the US forces slowly take whole Malden.

In the final stage it needs some fixes and trigger-overlays (the player wont always do the expected you know the drill stuff...) i would also add a cutsene that somehow shows how morris gets "heavily wounded" (engine:killed but for the story morris should survive imo)[maybe that combat engineer doesnt watch out an morris gets a shrappnell in his arse or something]. this woulda make  sure the player can use the command engine. (which isnt that important actually but since you have put it in why not let players use it). i told you what to be fixed already, maybe rethink bout that yellow glimpse wapoint formation thingys.

briefing great, intro as always great, but i missed those great scrolltexts ^^

high-atmosphere mission with lots of innovation in it which makes this a great one.
In this stage (an its only beta...even the voices are missing) I would rate it a 7.
With the bugs (better: infunctionalities) being fixed its easily a 8 or 9.

Good luck, and no, dont scrap it ;)

Uber.

EDIT:
The scene in the helo, you know, the BLACK INs to simulate the player fall asleep. VERY nice idea, but the blackins are too regular. when they went off i thought "oh, he wanted to do a cutscene or something and did something wrong with his titlecuts. stupid mistake..." then morris told me whats going on and i understood. I would suggest to simply use a different interval. 0.2, 0.4 eg.


EDIT:
To 456820:
Remember CoCs Command Engine is much more powerful than the one used in this mission. This one is straight to the point, but doesnt give you those advanced possiblities as CoCs does which i understood easily cuz I bothered thinking bout it a moment. play CoCs battle school mission and youll know what i mean (if you havent already).
Anyway, how can i possibly use the coc engine for my mission? it isnt an addon, so im clueless... might be a script, il unPBO some battle school...(sry 4 off-topicing a moment)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 15 Aug 2005, 11:12:09
oh i thought of a cool idea for this, ive noticed that when a squad is dead in the command interface it has KIA writted over them how about when a squad has one man left in it they say that there on there own and join up with the squad with highest amount of casualties no good platoon leader would leave on of there squads with just one man in
it shouldnt be too hard to do either i dont think

also i finished doing the start of the other review buti came across no new bugs or anything wich i avent mentioned or someone else has mentoned so i thought to leave it as it is

i also noticed that your platoon leader isnt very tactical how about making everyone change formation when certain things happen
eg
a contact situation it turns from a pltoon wede into a platoon line wedge thing and so on

also when im told that say the russians have reported our position why dont you make a Bmp and a few men come looking at the problem and also if we were spotted the whole camp wouldnt be in safe they would be in aware and also why not a lovely siren when your spotted ?

anyway love this mission, most likely my most favourite mission of all time, cant wait for the final version and when will a new beta release be out ?
grea mission  ;D
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 15 Aug 2005, 11:18:12
oh i thought of a cool idea for this, ive noticed that when a squad is dead in the command interface it has KIA writted over them how about when a squad has one man left in it they say that there on there own and join up with the squad with highest amount of casualties no good platoon leader would leave on of there squads with just one man in
it shouldnt be too hard to do either i dont think

Done. That's implemented in the latest beta :)
Along with an 'establish base of fire' button, and a couple of others.

I'm just trying to find the time to finish the outro, and post the new one up... getting there, slowly but surely.

Thanks for the continued interest guys :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: MrN on 15 Aug 2005, 21:33:50
While playing this the over-riding thoughts I had was "How did you do that?" and "Damn this is tough!"

Benchmark 6410, Unit replacement ECP (not 1.085), Vet mode, no super AI

Typo's noted:
None.  ;D

Overview:
LOL.  :wow: Pics for links.  Very nice indeed. Takes an overview beyond what they normally contain.

Intro:
I know you've mentioned there is a new version due so the only thing I'll say is Nice.

Briefing:
Lot of information here, well laid out. More pics.  :)

Mission:
Loved the sleepy effect.

Might be better to have the lookout s/w before getting out the chopper, so it looks planned in advance. There was quite a delay until I had it. Nice way of introducing the yellow thing though (position).

We move on, and I try to keep in formation, cracks of a sniper rifle go off, I hit the deck while I look for sniper. See him, shoot him, his mate gets me.

Second time, the Lt gets hit and I take over.  Number 2 keeps issuing an order for everyone to move to a tree. This gets irritating.

Look at command interface and laugh out loud. Another "How did you do that?" moment. It's a bit daunting at first. But finally figure out what it's all about. Kind-of…  :-X

Neutralise Enemy OP is crossed.

Move N/W to flank the Northern side of the black gap. Have to wait for group A to catch up while number 2 bleats his commands. Group A seems to be the one having trouble. Get bored of waiting for them to catch up and have another rummage in the command interface, notice I can move individual squads so follow the procedure to move them and have another little chuckle to myself. Then notice group A are still in Danger mode.  :P

While a wait for them to catch up I have a proper look at the command interface, this is elegant stuff mate. Looks daunting at first but it is actually deceptively simple. Takes me about 20 minutes of playing time to whip them into shape, I think I now "get it".

Get to a position N/W and tell the platoon to hold fire and stop while I go down and investigate. See A LOT â„¢ of badguys stationary and patrolling. Start to plan an attack. Decide to charge up the back of them.

Head to the rocks at EC44 with the platoon in "platoon vee, danger". Am a little disconcerted when it's all quiet. Move to Arudy and someone had a small firefight somewhere. You always know when you're twitchy when you pop a cap in one of your own men as he runs past.

Get to Arudy and there's what looks like an empty T72 and a Ural. Move up into town and notice loads of blokes in the truck, I backup, we waste it.  Then discover the T72 isn't empty but 7 comes to the rescue. I had noticed that when one of the west AI had taken out the driver of the truck the drivers seat was re-occupied but no-one else got out the truck. I end up popping one too many of my own guys and get a field judgement.  :-X

Load one of my many savegames. Take Arudy after losing my medic. Form into Line, squads in columns as we prepare to move up.

Lots of savegames and tactics tried here. Mostly ending up with my being shot as soon as I opened fire. Decide to try not shooting and just spotting for the platoon. Got myself a nice position at Ef44 and started spotting. There were a couple of groups that stayed in safe mode when all the firing started.

Had a bit of a "moment" trying to control the guys. Charlie squad got taken down, Bravo had 4 losses, Alpha only 1. I wanted Alpha to move up but they didn't seem to respond. Also had a "Bravo taking losses" message when nothing was happening.

The spotting of the enemy was great, but the squads seemed reluctant to let me know when they were taking losses. I had to get them to report in to find out.

Got up to the line after flanking right round on my own and ended up getting stuck with a bad save. Ie: grenades on my head or an M2 in my face. I need to start this again.  :P

All this and Number 2 was still spamming his commands. I had to turn the radio sound down.

I'm with Mac, gimme the big red button!

My main complaint of the command interface: after a while I got so used to it I kept pressing M to bring it up, it blends in so well. I didn't expect to get on with the whole interface thing but it becomes very natural after a bit of practice, nicely done. :thumbsup:

Top marks so far. It's just… a little tough.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 17 Aug 2005, 20:46:11
also Sui is there like a special AI script in there because there little pesky buggers always showing up on my rear or flanking me they seem very smart and there make some very lovely atmospheric fire fights
i did a classical manuver all squads in line surround them move in inch by inch then attack when they least suspect it but i still ended up with Charlie squad KIA
my squad with just one other gut and the Bravo with heavy casualties but in the end took over there little base after hundereds of Retry's defiantley without a doubt the best Fire fight ive ever faced in ofp

i cant wait for the final release if you make Arudy like L'espace noir in terms of fire fights this would be the best mission ive ever played it left me sitting back in my chair gasping for breath so good  ;D

anyway also will the sounds be done in the next version and what are you going to do with that contact script since there are so many possibilities is it going to require sounds ?

anyway great mission cant wait for the next beta im going to make sure im first in line to downlaod it
amazing work Facile Ground didnt get a 10 well originally but im pretty sure this will
Keep up the good work and hope to see more missions from you too  ;D
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: silent1 on 02 Sep 2005, 20:12:43
Using OFP v1.96

I'll write this as I go through the mission.

Overview:
Not much to comment on, glad to see you've kept the same style used for Facile Ground but for some reason I have the same picture that you used in Facile Ground, and the BETA version stamp is on the FG picture too :s

Intro:

I think the gaps between the words in The Black Gap title are too big. Intro starts properly, nice atmospheric touch with the dead Red, and the tanks begin to move off nicely. I can hear a tree being crushed somewhere behind (I think) me. Don't think you want that.

Love the shots of the tanks passing overhead, and the barrel shot of the AT soldier. Oozes quality.

I have a fairly low draw distance (around 900) and therefore cannot see the tanks that the AT guy is aiming at. Oh OK - the fog, I understand now. Get the impression that the Abrams wasn't supposed to blow up; it didn't, and love how the barrels aim in all different directions.

The final camera shot of the tanks moving off seems a little... boring? It doesn't fit properly. Either have the tanks moving off quicker (there is a slight pause), or change the shot.

Like the The Black Gap overlay, expert shot of the 5t Truck driving into the base, love the text appearing progressively.

Hehe, you still like your tents ;)

Haven't got a clue what one of the soldiers is showing to a few other guys, but at a guess it looks like he's recounting a bar brawl.

Excellent grunt banter going on. Showing some decent character depth. This sort of stuff doesn't escape everyone's attention! Good use of animations, especially like the expressions.

Map briefing starts ... turns off for a few seconds after Morgan says not to gloat... starts again.

Consider pausing the map movements after each thing Morris says. There's a lot to take in and those markers keep distracting me (I'm a sucker for colourful pictures). Although the problem will likely resolve itself when you get those custom voices. Ahem... /looks the other way.

LOVE how the platoon is organised, and the Sergeant's flick of the head towards the men. The Chinook with its engine on adds to the atmosphere and gives a sense of urgency.


Briefing:
Grammar...
'partisan-like' in Notes section.
'definately' spelt 'definitely' (at least, in England) in Lt Morris' notes. Thinking about it, this could just be you showing Lt Morris as any human is - prone to mistakes.

Formations... Oh, me likes. Me likes very much. Could do with a little better integration into the briefing, visually-wise but it doesn't half make me impatient for the mission to come along!

Weapon selection fits the job nicely, and the option of two LAWs is an ominous sign.


MISSION

The old falling asleep in the chopper trick ;) superb.
I can see you've purposefully given the Player a window seat. Waterfall of professionalism, again.

We've unloaded, and I'm off to the southwestern sector but a VERY odd marker is sending me to the west :P (Just realised, I'm in Cadet mode - is this why I have a marker?)

I think it's Yankee-Blue's text that has a capital 'l' for line.

The marker system works well. Without it, a simpleton like me would be lost in seconds.

The Lieutenant has been killed by a sniper. I never have particularly enjoyed leading men but the interface you've got looks friendly and welcoming - good job.

I click on Move Squad to Position button and a hintbox comes up. I Leave it to cancel the order but the box is still up. Would look neater if it disappeared after the ten second delay.

Charlie spot the recce patrol and I can't find it. Some frantic running towards L'Espace leaves my other squads behind and eventually the patrol is shot down somehow.

For some reason there's a lone West soldier at the tip of the final arrow leading to L'Espace Noir. I Save Game before the attack.

Base is very well laid out, looks like a proper outpost should. Rush in, cue much dying. Decide to use the Command interface and... send A, B and C in to get slaughtered. Spot a Russian checking me out while I'm healing at their hospital. Cue reload.

The Report Status radio uses too many capitals.

Finally break through, Mr Harris comes out and works his magic - nice scene, by the way.

Attack on Arudy is nice and easy by comparison. It would be an idea to allow the Player to say whether the town is clear or not, if he ends up in command.


Fini!

First Objective: Stop patrol from reaching the checkpoint
Final Objective: Take command of the platoon.

Very good mission. I prefer the first two instalments, although I love how you've continued several themes throughout the story (such as the characters and their, er, character).

I'll be playing this again sometime, so expect to hear some more feedback later on.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 03 Sep 2005, 02:28:28
Thanks for playing guys :)

Your feedback is much appreciated. I've now got a few more issues to tweak...

So bugger it, I'm taking a day off and finishing this damn outro so I can release the next (and hopefully last) beta version. Many improvements, and a few additions. Hopefully the end of the day will see it up...
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Mikero on 03 Sep 2005, 03:46:41
Hey, that's a relief. I'm tired of mentioning it in Beta News 8). Each time I think it's dead and buried someone discovers this little treasure and it pops up again. It really is a gem sui. I wish it would leave home and visit the MD.

<slap>


Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 03 Sep 2005, 11:15:02
Sounding great Sui this is one hell of a mission definately my favourite mission so i cant wait for it to be realeased in the MD your looking for a 10/10 if facile ground didnt get one then this will its everything facile ground is and better definatley a 10
great work cant wait for next release
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 05 Sep 2005, 03:06:16
Bah... problems as usual.

The outro is done (and looking quite spiffy ;)), but for some reason I'm getting a really ugly bug rearing it's head.

As mentioned above, when the player changes squads (if the LT dies) he remains on alpha squad's radio net. It used to be rare occurence but now happens pretty much without fail. I'm not sure why or what I"m doing wrong, but I'm going to try to fix it before I post the next version.

If I can't fix it in a week I'll post it up anyway and get comments on the intro and the new features I've added...

Thanks for your patience guys ;)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Tyger on 05 Sep 2005, 18:50:02
Sui, have you tried having the player join objNull? I believe that might fix your problem.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 07 Sep 2005, 08:35:54
Thanks mate... that does seem to help the situation a little.

I've tested it a few more times and only encountered the problem once out of about 5.

Bugger it... I'll post up the latest beta tonight or tomorrow anyway ;)
It needs some community testing, and I can't be bothered perfecting it until the cows come home...
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 07 Sep 2005, 17:03:44
by anychance does it have anything to do with the group they are called ?
since if someone from say grpalpha switched with grpbravo as team leaders would grpalpha now become grpbravo or would it stay the same since the player may still be part of groupalpha and then it gets muddled up with grpbravo and still gives you the radio messages ?
i doubt you understand that but its the best i can explain it

anyway cant wait for the release or beta release either way cant wait it sounds great cant wait to go into that awsome firefight again Great stuff

anyway im going to be waiting for the release either way tonight or tommorow ive got something to look forward to from coming back from school cant wait
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 08 Sep 2005, 09:17:27
Right... that's a little bit better...

New version up (available from the first post in this thread)
I'm keen to get a few more reports if anyone is able to please.
Here's a quick (and dirty) list of some of the new things to this version:> Establish Base of Fire
          > Merge squads (if squads have reduced numbers)
          > All squads report Status
> Take command of platoon
          > View outro (ends mission to view win outro)[/list]
I would really appreciate feedback on whether or not anyone get's the 'stuck on alpha's radio net' bug... I'm hoping I've eliminated it but it's one of those bugs that you never really know for sure :P

Anyway, thanks for the continued interest... I'm two parts away from having all the voices done. Hopefully release shouldn't be too far off (this has got to be one of the longest running OFP beta tests ever ;D)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 08 Sep 2005, 17:05:45
WAHOO new version 0.95 right if its not please tell me before i test it ive got homework now but will test with ECP straight after cant wait
also ill edit this post witht he review

EDIT first of all when i just opened the donwload i did not see the file in the .zip you have to save the .sip on your computer to extract it i suggest you put that on first page Sui

Right here we go with ECP new version

Overview
same part it says 0.95 instead of 0.90

Intro
Pretty much the same except a few new angles and shots but apart from that same
i did notice 2 things though when Buffalo gets attacked they say they are unable to return fire i get no reply from command then they say there going back to dourdan
and also buffalo seems to take far too long to react to the attack in the valley

apart from that very good and nice touch with no voices but the lips still move how is that done its new unless i couldnt hear the voices ?

Briefing
good pretty much the same even though i didnt read it all

i gave me the 203 with 3 grenades and a law as secondary with no laws for some reason weird

anyway time for the mission

note im going to complete the mission then tell you about it

Mission

Played it and its great
i started of came throught the valley encountered a few patrolstook them out then encounetered the UAZ took it out after wasting my M16 so i swapped it with an Ak i wanted to take control so i killed the Lt through the radio sorry i forgot to get court martialled

so i ordered charlie to give a base of fire i dont have a clue what it ws meant to do i thought it just meant the squad fire in the position i clicked but now i think they just lye there and shoot at the enemy wich is right ?

anyway after a rety, new idea and an intense battle with tracers going past my ear making me duck behind my table we secure the area the engineer comes along blows the road block then the tanks ocome past and mission acomplished DAMN i wanted to attack Arudy but oh well mission is still complete

i would of like to see the tanks seize Arudy but it doesnt matter cause i got to watch a cool outro

Outro

great i always love your cutscenes and especially if they involve a fire fight your one of the very few who can film a fire fight and make it look good others just make it look like a mess me included

but this was great bullets all over the place machine gunners laying down covering fire the atmosphere was just as good as the mission

nothing wrong i spotted with the outro
also is there an outro win and outro lose if so wich did i watch ?

anyway great mission

the atmoshpere in taking l'espace noir was not as good as last time i played have you removed some enemy's if so put them back i found it far to easy this time only took one retry last time took a good 10 and i didnt want to give up since it was so good

anyway amazing work a good solid 9 definately going towards 10 with a few more enemy's in l'espace noir who have waypoints coming straight at you would gie this a 10 aslong as it has the voice files and all the other things you were going to included

Great Mission

cant wait for the next version or will that be the final ?
keep up the amazing work
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 09 Sep 2005, 17:10:47
just a quick edit ive noticed that the base of fire when the team is in position then those little dots come from there symbol when i tell the squad to move again they stay there and dont get dleted

edit - sorry just relised i didnt edit that post
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Trapper on 10 Sep 2005, 01:13:42
OFP1.96 bench 5555, vetmode, no superai, ECP

First time that I play this mission.

Readme:
A good one.

Overview:
Many informations. Impressiv.
The shadow of the picture doesn't seem to be transparent.
The two paragrahps on the first page read a bit like one of them would be enough. ;)
The first one is the one I would keep, but the second one reads like the old originals.

Intro:
Good camera work and quality. Involving.
I hope you'll remove the "Buffalo: " ect from the subtitles when you find voice actors.

Encoutered a bug at first: The Russian AT soldier refused to launch the AT and then I saw the tanks driving in slowmotion until I canceled the intro.

Briefing:
Very detailed, almost overwhelming. (But still fine :) )
On thing that gets lost in the shuffle of the infos, is where the player will be in the platoon. - The only clue I did find, is in Command & Signal, and I had to know what "Alpha Blue" above the map is standing for. You could add (my squad) in Command & Signal to solve this problem for rookies.
A realistic looking squad and gear selection.

Mission:
-I was very happy that my lieutenant survived the mission. :)
-After providing covering fire with my squad in front of L'Espace Noir, he ordered me to the "trees south of the road". I wasn't  sure if he was talking about trees in front or behind of the fortifiactions.
-Also I never saw the yellow guiding lines again from this moment on.
-The star icons in the briefing look nice, but I prefer big and useful text links. These small icons require sniper skills when reading the briefing in combat. ;)

Quote
The first objective on your list when you finish
Intercept the patrol

Quote
The last objective on your list when you finish
Support the armour

Quote
Your opinion on the Formation Guide. Too annoying? Does it show up enough?
Very nice done and ok. But after approaching L'Espace Noir it was gone.

Quote
Difficulty when assaulting L'Espace Noir
Moderate, but I wasn't in command.


Overall the mission has a very realistic and immersing infantry feeling to it.


Debriefing:
This picture shadow looks good.
You have a notable tendency to fill up every empty piece of paper you can get your hands on. - But thats not really a problem. :)

Outro:

Typo: Vektorboson

The outro is very hard for me to review.
+ with it's quality it could easily replace the CWC outro
- its too much and too long for one mission

After watching it, I've got the feeling, that the quintessence of the whole outro is only the last sentence shown in it.
I would suggest to make the outro not one second longer, than you really need it to give all the credits. But you're listening to someone who is bored by all the repeating OFP scenes, because he has seen them too often. ;)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 12 Sep 2005, 07:44:00
Thanks for playing guys :)

This should (hopefully) be the final beta, all that really remains is adding the last two voice parts and cleaning up any remaining bugs.

456820, thanks for the tips on the base of fire function. I'll make sure I get rid of those dots after it ceases ;)

Trapper, thanks for all the feedback. There's still quite a few bits of polishing to be done on the outro (including cleaning up the credits, as I'll be using custom resources).
I'll have a re-look at the code that calls up the formation guide. 'The group of trees' becomes more obvious if there's a yellow marker pointing to it :P

Thanks guys.

For anyone else, I'm still keen to see if anybody gets the radio bug when taking command of the platoon ;)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 12 Sep 2005, 09:06:13
hey i havent had trouble with the radio it was fine i could order my own team i wasnt connected to alpha anymore it was fine also what does the base of fire command actually do on this i thought it was like covering fire but it didnt look like they were doing much covering
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: mathias_eichinger on 27 Sep 2005, 17:12:59
Hi there!

I also played the mission the first time.


Overview

Nice touch, you don't see too many overviews that are more than one page long.


Intro

I could not see it, one of those "missing addons" things came up.


Mission

Wow, this mission is one of the best I ever played. I was sceptical of the "platoon action" because I never managed to use the CoC Command engine properly.

But it starts with me being a squad leader in a platoon. This brings immersion for the player, because it's the was conventional infantry missions are "meant to play" IMHO.
Oh and the conversation in the helo is funny  :)

Bug

I could never see the formation guide in the first person perspective, I always had to check my map.
But I think it is a very good idea and very helpful!

After I cleared the OP, we encountered a sniper who took care of my LT. Now, the platoon interface came into play. WOW! No more dreaded CoC interface, very easy to understand and to use. Well, but I did not use the "fire base" option. What's that about?

The Espace Noir was not a problem for me. I just underestimated the time for a flanking maneuver of my two squads and I finished most of the enemies off myself. Speaking of the enemies at that roadblock: The outflanked me from the right and I took heavy casualties (my squad being down to 6 men). But I survived and better platoon management should make this rather easy.

Arudy was not so difficult, because I had tank support. Overall, this mission is really great and the first fluid attempt at platoon command I ever encountered. It would have been great if I just remained a squad commander as well  ;D

First Objective: Take out OP
Last Objective: Take command of your squad.
All other objectives sandwiched between the two.

Outro and Cutscenes

Superbly done, especially the Outro. You don't see such a perfect firefight camescripting every day!
 

Cheers

Mathias
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 29 Sep 2005, 03:57:51
The base of fire command get the squad in a position to cover a direction. It makes they take cover (setbehaviour "Combat"), and keeps them facing the direction you told them to. It's good if you want to do a bounding overwatch, or set up an ambush.

Thanks for playing, mathias :)

I'm glad you found the system intuitive... that's exactly what I was aiming for. CoC is much more indepth and comprehensive than mine, but I like simplicity.

I'll check that formation guide, as it's obviously not behaving.

This mission is very close to release. I'm just waiting on a couple more voice parts, and I'm away laughing. More testing is always appreciated though :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 29 Sep 2005, 09:01:42
cool cant wait for it ill probaly play again this is a great mission
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 14 Oct 2005, 22:14:14
just wondering do you have any more plans after this missions since the 3 missions this, Airborne and facile ground all link to each other, is this like a bunch of single player missions with a story or are you stopping after this and leaving it as a kind of cliff hangar
'This fight for Malden continues' or what ever it was  ;D

anyway cant wait for the mission ill try to get antoher test in i keep meaning to but theres something that gets in my ways Eg Facile Ground cause its below this mission on my SP list so i end up playing that  ;D

anyway i love your missions there all top notch high quality kick ass missions keep up the great work
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 15 Oct 2005, 07:37:39
Yeap... the next one is already planned out in my head.
I may wait for ArmA though ;)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 09 Dec 2005, 00:39:36
Well after what is quite possibly the longest beta period ever, this mission is finally RELEASED! (http://www.ofpec.com/missions_depot/index.php?action=details&id=188).

A huge thanks to everyone who contributed. Your hard work made this mission much better than it ever would have been had I not put it up for beta test.

Thanks too to all the great people who volunteered for voices. The ambience added to the mission puts the atmosphere up at another level.


So if you'd like to see the final product, head on over to the missions depot and check it out :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: 456820 on 09 Dec 2005, 17:42:39
YAY i love this mission im heading over and downloading it right now cant wait to try it with ECP
any news on any more releases by you ?
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 12 Dec 2005, 01:53:59
Possibly... I was going to wait for ArmA before I did any more serious editing, but I've been convinced to take on another project for the time being... ;)

I'll let you know when it starts to get off the ground...
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: dmakatra on 13 Dec 2005, 00:05:43
I just played the finished version and, believe it or not, I actually finished it! Seemed like it's little hatred against me has finally come to an end. Btw, that is some BLOODY fine camera work. It's brilliant.

Oh, and man, that is some crappy voice acting done by me. Funny though since you used dmakatra for credits in the beta testing but TRA in voice acting-credits. :P

This is an excellent mission, very well done. I didn't like Facile Ground as much as everybody else. I mean, everything was fantastic except the action; which sort of sucked if you ask me. This one I like very much though. Everything (with no exceptions) is fantastic. My favourite is still Airborne though. When you going to do a re-release of that one, with voice acting and stuff? Because it's about the most atmospheric mission there is out there.
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: Sui on 13 Dec 2005, 00:25:44
...but I've been convinced to take on another project for the time being... ;)

You picked it armsty... ;)
Early next year.

About the credits, I only noticed I hadn't kept it the same after I released the damn thing!
I had the voice credits done a while back, and only did the QA credits just before release.

Sorry... hope you don't mind :P

Thanks for playing again though. You did well, your voice really adds to the mission :)
Title: Re:Out of the Ashes...!
Post by: dmakatra on 13 Dec 2005, 07:58:02
Hah! Right on target! ;D

Don't be messing with it too much, though. It has got something I can't really put my finger on. It's so atmospheric. If I'd sum it up in one sentence it'd be "As a paratrooper, things can ALWAYS get worse". ;D

Oh, and I don't mind a bit about that credits-thingy mate. No worries.
Title: Re: (Review Please) [SP] The Black Gap
Post by: RKurtzDmitriyev on 23 Aug 2010, 14:48:26
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE :blink:

I wrote a new review (http://www.ofpec.com/missions_depot/index.php?action=details&id=188) for this, as the one by Planck (RIP) got lost somehow. Cool mission, Sui. :good: